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Peanut the pony

This is a discussion on Peanut the pony within the Horse Training forums, part of the Training Horses category

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        11-12-2012, 08:28 AM
      #11
    Foal
    Okay, first things first, if he seems to have so many issues, what exactly have you been working on previous to posting on the forum? What have you been able to train him to do?

    The spray bottle of water is always a good thing to try with spray issues. It doesn't matter if you have to drench them, as long as they learn the lesson.

    Dogs are tricky, because if they've never been around horses, or are bratty, they can be AWFUL nightmares to deal with around horses. Best way is safe exposure, as often as possible.

    Getting in your space? Not acceptable, ever. IMMEDIATELY reprimand him. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.

    Attacking you for treats is an easy fix. Don't give him any. He doesn't deserve them.
         
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        11-12-2012, 08:32 AM
      #12
    Foal
    Sorry to say this but I would suggest a lot of the information given to you won't help you an awful lot. Most of the methods people have given you have been threatening to the pony and actually you would rather deal with it in a calm way I'm sure.

    *Rearing when we back up* How much time do you spend on the ground with this pony? Take him to a secure area where you have plenty of space like the arena and teach him to back up. Do this by pulling backwards on the rope at the same time as pushing him in the chest. This works better with a dually halter. Keep on with this even if you have to do it for weeks until he backs up without needing any pressure on the rope or his chest but just when you move your hand towards his chest. When mounted, make sure you only ask him for ONE step before rewarding, then two and suchlike.
    *Freaking out with fly spray* DO NOT just keep spraying him you will just scare him and put yourself in danger, breaking your trust with him. Instead you will need to take a number of weeks with him. Start by spraying onto a brush so he can hear the noise but not feel the spray. Then when he is COMPLETELY happy with that, every now and then spray him, rewarding him immediately after by rubbing his forehead
    *Freaking out around dogs* Borrow a dog! Take the dog into his stable and everywhere you work with him take the dog. He will soon not bother.
    *Attemting to trample you when you lead him* The exercise in backing up will sort this out!
    *Attacking you for treats* Don't ever reward him with treats. If he does go to nip you tap him on the leg with your foot each time he does. Eventually he will go to bite you and then look at his leg instead.

    I hope this helps and you continue to use a calm safe approach with your pony rather than going in all guns blazing and scaring your pony. Well done, sounds like you've done a great job so far!
         
        11-12-2012, 09:02 AM
      #13
    Yearling
    My mare got used to the fact hay "oh she isn't really going to spray me with that if I keep moving she will just brush it on" Nah don't think so. I could spray her mane and tail but not her body. She wasn't scared she was being hateful so yes I drenched her till she stood still because she had no excuse.
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        11-12-2012, 12:41 PM
      #14
    Foal
    'Just being hateful' wow you sure know your horses. Everything a horse does is through instincts or learned behaviour. By putting human emotions on your horse you don't do anyone any favours. Your 'methods' might work for you but as I said the horse is learning through fear and personally I would rather teach my horses to trust me and have a relationship with me. Try watching Monty Roberts or parelli and you'll maybe understand.
         
        11-12-2012, 01:17 PM
      #15
    Green Broke
    Sorry, but horses should not be your friends. They should respect you as a leader. Your relationship should be the "I'm the boss, I make the rules" relationship, otherwise your "friend" will not respect you and can get dangerous real quick. Establishing a leader position will make them trust you. They will look to you for comfort, and should trust that you won't put them in harm's way.

    The fly spray is a pressure-release exercise. You keep that pressure on them until they stop moving - even if just for half a second. You then release the pressure and give them lots of praise. It's about baby steps. If you don't have the time/will-power to finish it, then don't start it.
         
        11-12-2012, 01:36 PM
      #16
    Started
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lycagriffin    
    'Just being hateful' wow you sure know your horses. Everything a horse does is through instincts or learned behaviour. By putting human emotions on your horse you don't do anyone any favours. Your 'methods' might work for you but as I said the horse is learning through fear and personally I would rather teach my horses to trust me and have a relationship with me. Try watching Monty Roberts or parelli and you'll maybe understand.
    My horses view me as their leader, not their best friend.

    I had one of the strongest bonds you can have with my last mare. And she was scared of her own shadow when I started working with her. You sprayed her with a spray bottle and she went up and over, you asked her to halt, she went up and over.

    I started ground driving her, asked her to halt and she reared, so I pulled her over. She never did it again.

    I chased her in circles in her stall with a spray bottle.

    Guess what? She still ran to meet me at the gate, she nickered when she saw me, she followed me like a puppy dog. But she never invaded my space. If she kicked out when on the cross ties, I kicked her back.

    If you watch horses in the wild they establish their boundaries with each other through dominance. By showing her I am the leader, she respected me.

    Oh and before you say I got lucky with one horse. I do this with every single horse I have ever worked with and had the same results with every horse. My horses are not scared of me. I can walk in their stalls or paddocks when they are laying down and I can lay down with them. So obviously they are not scared of me
         
        11-12-2012, 04:50 PM
      #17
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lycagriffin    
    'Just being hateful' wow you sure know your horses. Everything a horse does is through instincts or learned behaviour. By putting human emotions on your horse you don't do anyone any favours. Your 'methods' might work for you but as I said the horse is learning through fear and personally I would rather teach my horses to trust me and have a relationship with me. Try watching Monty Roberts or parelli and you'll maybe understand.
    forget parelli. I am not a horse. I am a human. And if she stands just perfectly for her mane and tail to be done then she can stand perfectly for the fly spray. If she wants to pin ears and threaten to kick for fly spray yes she is being hateful she got sprayed with water for two hours straight till those feet stopped. No different than any other lesson.
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        11-12-2012, 05:13 PM
      #18
    Started
    I'm more then likely going to be flamed to high heavens for this.

    But IMP Parelli and Monty are way over rated and all about the money, not the horse. And a good chunk of their "methods" are complete BS. A good scam is what they are IMO. I have a great relationship with my horse without making it chase a stick like a dog.
    JustDressageIt likes this.
         
        11-12-2012, 05:23 PM
      #19
    Green Broke
    I'm sorry lycagriffen, but telling someone who has a horse that has proven to be aggressive AND rears to push the horse on the chest to get it to back up? That is terrifying advice that might get her seriously hurt. Say she goes in close enough to push on the pony's chest and it decides to rear or strike instead of backing? A hoof to the head is not worth "making friends" and doing it "gently". It is risking her health and safety. There is a time and place for gentle, and there is a time and place for " you WILL get out of my space and respect me". This pony needs the latter.
    NdAppy and NBEventer like this.
         
        11-12-2012, 06:37 PM
      #20
    Trained
    Hmm, feel the need to comment on responses again....

    Quote:
    By trample you I gather you mean he knocks you with his shoulder? In part he responds to you because you have treats.
    I disagree. The treats aren't making him do this, the handler is inadvertently allowing or training him to do it/mug her. It's not the reinforcer, it is what is being reinforced. So saying, if the handler doesn't understand what's going on & especially if the pony is an 'assertive' personality, I would advise avoiding treats or any strong reinforcer or punisher until they have both learned more.

    Quote:
    Most of the methods people have given you have been threatening to the pony and actually you would rather deal with it in a calm way I'm sure.
    Lyca, I am inclined to agree with the gist of that post(altho the comment about using a dually & taking weeks to teach a horse to back up lost me), but while if the pony is afraid or confused, I personally think a non-confrontational approach is very important, we don't have enough details to assume this. I don't think you're considering that the pony may be acting out of 'assertiveness'(for want of better term - 'dominance' grates on me!). In that case, *IMO* a 'stronger'(& safe/experienced) approach is necessary.

    Interesting that you seem to advocate a non-confrontational approach but you advise taking a dog into the stable of a horse who may be afraid/aggressive towards dogs. This is very confrontational & dangerous, especially for the poor dog!

    Quote:
    If he does go to nip you tap him on the leg with your foot each time he does. Eventually he will go to bite you and then look at his leg instead.
    ???lol: Can't say I've experienced that when a horse is 'tapped on the leg' for something, or think why it's a likely outcome.

    Quote:
    'Just being hateful' wow you sure know your horses. ..... Try watching Monty Roberts or parelli and you'll maybe understand.
    Non-confrontational, respectful communication works best with people too, I've found. I won't comment on my thoughts of MR here. I do respect *the gist* of Parelli's teaching, but I think you're missing a lot if you think that's non-confrontational.

    Quote:
    Sorry, but horses should not be your friends. They should respect you as a leader.
    Disagree thoroughly with the first comment above. I do absolutely want my horses to think of me as a friend, not just a domineering 'boss'. Won't go into my ideas about 'respect' and what it means to different people, but 'should' doesn't tend to help people understand *how* to develop a trusted, respected & respectFUL leadership role with a horse I've found.

    Quote:
    But IMP Parelli and Monty are way over rated and all about the money, not the horse. And a good chunk of their "methods" are complete BS. A good scam is what they are IMO. I have a great relationship with my horse without making it chase a stick like a dog.
    What's IMP mean? I don't agree that Parelli's methods are a scam(well, been out of touch with those kind for many years & hear they use all sorts of gadgets these days, so...), but think he is possibly a better salesman than horseman. I do think the *basic principles* are sound & helpful for beginners, but it does tend to encourage a bit of fanaticism(no yeah-buts!) in people that haven't learned better.

    And what's wrong with teaching a horse to play fetch?? Not that I've ever seen MR or PP do that.
    PunksTank likes this.
         

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