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Pelham bit anyone?

8K views 30 replies 19 participants last post by  Yogiwick 
#1 ·
What are everyone's thoughts on the pelham bit?
heard it can cause a lot of damage!
i don't use them and personally don't like them.
just want to get others thoughts:D:D
 
#2 ·
Where did you hear they can do a lot of damage, and what sort of damage can they cause?

I think they can be a very useful bit to have in ones collection, I usually have a mullen mouth pelham around somewhere just in case.

Any bit used wrongly can cause damage, but a pelham is a lot 'safer' than a lot of other options, and a lot of horses seem to go really nicely in them
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#4 ·
What on earth is wrong with a pelham? Of course I can only imagine that if a person thinks it will force a type of action or behavior that could be awful. But those kind would likely muck of the purpose of any bit!

I like them.

With the two rein set up, I can use the snaffle rein as needed and have the curb rein as needed. I will often put a pelham, with the mouthpiece appropriate to the shape of an individual's mouth, on a horse that I get in for rehab until I know how it goes.

I've used them on youngsters that will be neck-reined as a goal.

I use one on my ranch horse when I ride him in polo games. He also goes in a halter when ponying other horses, and a short-shanked curb when we are just out changing water or checking grass. He even goes in a spade for some work we do.

I find them to be very versatile. And I have never damaged a horse's mouth.

You can do what you want, but I wouldn't get too worked up about the average person who happens to put a pelham on a horse. :)
 
#5 ·
So you don't like them but have never used one? :/

I think they are a FAR better alternative to other reins and are very safe. Yes, they have leverage....as does pretty much anything other than a snaffle. Other than that, what is bad about them?? (Not that leverage is bad, many horses PREFER it!)

I used one on my hot strong and forward ex Saddleseat horse as a kid. Was that doing the horse credit and proper training? No, and looking back I have a lot of regrets with him, was it a good solution as a bandaid? Absolutely. I learned very good hands and could ride properly with two reins at 13 years old, the horse did not mind his bit and despite the times when I was admittedly hauling on him (as much as a 13 year old girl can try to) there was absolutely no "damage" physically or mentally to the horse.. ***If I had that same horse these days I would probably put that EXACT SAME bit on him again*** (just with a training approach). Heck as a Saddleseat horse I would not be surprised if he had been ridden in one a bunch.

I still have that bit and have used it on one of my current geldings as well and definitely see myself using it again at some point. A very useful bit. (It's also a mullen mouth).

Honestly the horses really don't care too much about what's on the outside of their mouth unless it's flat out abusive or they are very very particular (and that's a preference thing) so what's the fuss about? It's the same concept as a double bridle minus a bunch of leather and metal, so win win?

So is the mullen mouth the problem? The snaffle rein? The leverage part? Where exactly is the problem? I'm not seeing one. Nor am I seeing any potential for damage beyond what ANY other bit would be capable of doing.
 
#6 ·
Used correctly, a pelham bit is a wonderful tool to have access to.
Used incorrectly it can hurt the mouth and make a horse fearful to take a bit.

That said, any bit used wrong can cause damage, hurt a horse and be cruel.
Like anything else you need to be educated in the proper use of a pelham bit.
Today, like a lot of things in this world are done, people take a shortcut and not use it the way it is designed... designed for use with 2 reins.
A "bit converter" is the lazy rider and uneducated riders way of riding....such a waste.
Kind of goes along with having gentle, responsive, soft hands holding the reins and guiding the horse...communicating,...for many a lost art.
:runninghorse2:...
jmo...
 
#7 ·

A "bit converter" is the lazy rider and uneducated riders way of riding....such a waste.
So are you calling all the top flight show jumpers and eventers who choose to use a single rein and a converter lazy or uneducated? I have a feeling that neither are traits that get you to the top. Finding what works does however lead to success.

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#11 ·
You always have to be very careful with leverage and Contact. Using the two rein avoids all of those issues for your horse as long as you have those reins straight in your mind.
As always, back up and review your very basic steps when you change bits. It should stay SIMPLE. If you are getting confused with both reins, imagine how your horse would feel?
 
#13 ·
My only pick at pelham bits is that the shanks are so straight. As a western girl, I tend to prefer something with more swept shanks, but since I do a different style of riding than english riders with pelham bits, I won't say they are bad. They don't really fit with what I do and my own preferences, but other people get along just fine with them.
 
#14 ·
horselovinguy; A "bit converter" is the lazy rider and uneducated riders way of riding....such a waste. Kind of goes along with having gentle said:
There are times when a bit converter can be useful especially with strong ponies and little riders.

Pelhams are not my favourite bits but have been part of my arsenal.

One child out Fox Hunting at a Pon Club meet, was having a terrible time with her pony hauling her all over the place. She was getting frightened. The pony was in a Pelham, loose curb chain and with converters.
I took her to one side, put the reins on the bottom of the bit, tightened the curb a couple of links and she then was able to control the pony fine.

There is no way that that child would have managed two reins.
 
#15 ·
A bit is a tool. And the physics of each bit needs to be considered in each circumstance. I like Pelhams and understand where they can be bad in the hands of an uneducated rider. I use them from time to time. Particularly with one of my geldings who gets excited when running in groups of horses like in foxhunting, or hunter pacing, he is also starting third level work and we are is starting to introduce a double bridle but he also has a small mouth, and fitting him for a double bridle has been a task. He can pack a Weymouth and bridoon, but is happier with just a Pelham.

With converters--- there is a HUGE difference when an educated pro uses a converter and understands its use. You can shift your hands to influence the curb or snaffle or curb or both equally depending on how high or low. Where an ammy is much less aware or able of how their hands with influence the bit.
 
#17 ·
Foxhunter....
What you describe of that pony rider ...

I was under the impression that that is how the "slotted Kimberwicke{e}" bit came into being....:shrug:
For the pony rider who could not exert enough force or leverage nor have hands large enough to handle 2 reins successfully...
Single rein, slotted rein application able to apply more leverage and a curb chain fully adjustable in being tightened...
Is what I've been told and read in books wrong in what and why Kimberwick{e} bits came into being? :think:
My spelling of the name, depending upon the countries origin the spelling is different...



The pony was in a Pelham, loose curb chain and with converters.
This also said much to me..
A properly fitted bit including curb chain correctly
adjusted and maybe your intervention would not of been needed.
I am very glad though you were there to help out, make adjustments and keep that child safe.
What was a minor thing could of been so much more!
:runninghorse2:...
 
#18 ·
Many have made excellent points and I whole-hardheartedly agree with what you have written.

In the right hands, in the right circumstance a "converter strap" is fine.
It is when it is a uneducated hand holding the rein and not understanding the mechanics of the bit where it goes awry.
Today, many have never even been taught how to hold double reins just sent directly into a converter strap....

I am old-school...
I use to love going to watch the "Medal/Maclay" Junior Rider horse finals when it was AHSA/ASPCA association. {told you I was old-school}....
The shake-down round....
Watch what happened when names were pulled from a hat and told to dismount, strip your saddle, tack-up and ride another horse...
Many times some riders were unable to ride well another animal because they were use to short-cuts in tack, a animal that was as automated as could be and suddenly they needed to truly ride and handle tack competently the new mount was adorned with...
They had holes in their knowledge base although they used some of that same equipment but with short-cuts applied...

This link opens years worth of photos of the best of the best junior riders..

I am not as old as some of the first pictures shown...but notice the bits many used and the reins....
http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/236x/40/21/26/402126eef81e83e305331906d4358587.jpg

Ohhh...some examples of those top-riders of today I knew before they were anything but a junior rider....
I know they know how to use 2 reins... but as another wrote...
Use what is best for that animal, that day, in that situation for the best result and happiest animal....that is exactly what he was doing.
Isn't that how it should be?
To make the animal comfortable doing our bidding with a educated hand guiding the horse in harmony....

With that....

I bid you :wave: and have a good day.
:runninghorse2:.....
 
#19 ·
Don't ride English , beyond on the flat, so have never used a Pelham.,thus no comment on that bit.
far as Kmberwicks, you will see them used by youth and non pro in stock horse HUS (reins attached in bottom slot, so curb action ), but the professionals showing open, stick to D ring snaffles.
I agree it is both the education of that horse, and the rider's hands, that determines whether a bit is harsh, or just gives some greater communication, however, once you get beyond a simple direct basic bit like a snaffle, the education of those hands, and the horse's mouth has to be at a more refined level, and unfortunately, this so often is not true
That is main reason, a Spade bit, for instance, should never be used by most people and on most horses.
 
#20 ·
The British pelhams are traditionally shorter shanked so the leverage effect is much less and they have either a very shallow port or no port or they're jointed so the effect you're going to get varies a lot
We often had them with connectors on ponies in the riding schools that were used for jumping lessons because they were mostly retired top level jumping ponies that were great for always going where they were pointed but could be a little to strong for the sort of children that were experienced enough to jump but only weekend riders. I never saw a single pony damaged in any way by using them, they were always willing and happy
Two reins are fine for schooling, dressage and showing where you've got time to think which rein you're wanting to use but in jumping, hunting or cross country the majority of riders that need extra control don't want a handful of reins or have the time to be deciding which one to use so they end up using both together in which case you might as well have the connector which actually reduces the leverage affect anyway - so not going to make the bit harsher but less so
People that want the extra leverage are more likely to go for the 2 or 3 ring bits now
 

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#21 ·
Smilie;9264313. I agree it is both the education of that horse said:
This is true for all bits, including snaffles, in a nutshell. The training of the individualhorse and the abilities of the rider’s hands to remain soft is what determinesif a bit is harsh or will cause issues in the horse’s mouth. I ride a mare with a long, confirmed historyof abuse and her mouth reflects what canhappen if the wrong bit is used by the wrong hands. While it took some time, once she learnedthat my hands are soft and that the bit in her mouth will never be a torturedevice, she became soft and responsive to the lightest cues even though manyterm her as overly energetic and hot.
 
#24 ·
True, but if the same un educated hands, are on that snaffle, versus some advanced curb, then the possibility of damage is greater with those hands on a leverage bit
Ditto, if even you have very good hands, and place a spade in the mouth of a colt, versus in the mouth of ahorse that has gone through that entire vaquero program of creating a Spade bit horse, you are going to do damage, as that colt has an un educated mouth, and thus does not know hoe to respond to that slight signal

It is also, why I read somewhere, that Ed Correll spoke about creating a Spade bit horse, stated that when a vaquero rode out to work cattle, on a horse up in a Spade, he would often pack a snaffle, tied on the back of his saddle, in case he had to school that horse
Bits are graded, in tack catalogs and elsewhere, as to how 'strong they are, or as to what level of horse they are suited for. This grading would be impossible, if you had two variables-ie bit design and hands on the reins.
 
#22 ·
I have often used a Pelham over the years, mainly on spoiled horses that know full well they can disrespect a snaffle bit and take off with you. Often they are ok in an enclosed area to work with but they will take advantage when out in the open.
I like the Pelham because I can ride on the top rein and if all is well no need for any curb action but should the horse decide to do something like take off with you or even just ignore the snaffle and do what they want, then you can drop to the bottom rein and remind them of their manners.
Usually it only takes a few times and then they know the curb is there and no more problems and after some time and the horse learns to listen to you and obeys the snaffle you can then go back to using a snaffle when out hacking.
One time I bought a nice gelding, big fellow, part draft and I found out why his price was so low as he ran away with me a couple of times so I bought a good Pelham and rode out with it, this horse would go along fine and then suddenly leap up in the air 180 degree turn mid air and warp speed for home. well I was able to pull him up short with the curb rein, he tried this twice and that was the end of this problem, he turned out to be a great trail horse, very dependable after we sorted out this problem. In this case the Pelham was the answer.
 
#27 ·
I love pelhams, and I'd probably still be using one if it were legal in dressage.

I don't follow the rules of dressage so my question is a "real" question....

Why are pelhams not allowed in dressage?
If allowed a full bridle of 2 bits and full set of reins...why not a pelham bit?:think:

I truly don't understand why you're not allowed to use a bit that can add finesse and greater minuscule cues to a horse...one bit
You though are allowed, and required in some levels of competition to use 2 bits in the horses mouth....
I don't understand that....what is the reasoning?
:confused_color:.....
:runninghorse2:.....
 
#29 ·
The use of a double bridle in dressage at upper levels dates back to tradition as much as anything and is based on the same principle as it's use in the UK show ring once you're out of novice (or lead rein and first ridden pony) classes so it could be that its all about having a horse trained to work in a double bridle with two bits though in show classes a Pelham with two reins is allowed
I think some dressage organisations do allow a Pelham with two reins on ponies that have got mouths that don't accommodate two bits
 
#30 ·
We use a Pelham on my 28 year old 12.2hh welshie. In a snaffle he tanks off, in a dutch gag he goes up. In a Pelham he's the safest pony going. He has a hard mouth from years in a riding school being used by tiny tots. In a Pelham his 7 year old rider can be light in his hands and learn to ride properly. We have D rings on it, but give the kid credit, he's 7, only been riding 3 years and has a learning disability that makes coordination difficult for him and can safely get round 75cm sj and 85cm xc on the old boy (pony prefers xc to sj) and can hack him out for hours.

I had a 14.2hh cob x that had to be ridden in a Pelham with a port with double reins as he had odd mouth conformation. Snaffle he'd fight, Pelham he could be ridden without a contact safely, or ridden into a contact effectively, I very rarely picked up the curb rein. My IDx was hunted his first couple of times in a Pelham with double reins. Over bitted to have brakes (ironically again, I didn't need the curb rein), he's now perfect in a loose ring cherry roller snaffle to hunt and xc.

Any bit can be harsh in the wrong hands. If it suits the horse, use it. But don't use it as a shortcut.
 
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