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Problems lounging (Horse kicks at my head)

This is a discussion on Problems lounging (Horse kicks at my head) within the Horse Training forums, part of the Training Horses category

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    01-25-2011, 12:24 AM
I am in a similar position. Brown kicks out at me when I lunge him as well, usually when I ask him to work harder than he wants. He doesn't do this with my father in law at all so I know it's me. I haven't been kicked in the head but I have been charged three times by him and he also took off with me at a gymkhana a week and a half ago, which I ended up with two severly bruised knees from an emergency dismount. I notice his behavior changes and he tries to get the upper hand the second I lose some confidence or it isn't clear what I want from him. With him I just have to be clear and confident ( not easy when I am naturally shy and go with flow kind of girl). My father in law seems to think he is playing and sees me as a playmate and I am most definitely not playing. I have found a trainer since my fall and have been working off her very valuable knowledge for gaining his respect no matter what I ask of him. Just wanted to let you know you aren't alone : ) I am learning some good tips from your thread as well. I hope you start making some positive progress soon.
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    01-25-2011, 02:08 AM
Hey, thanks, Christina. I'll get a video up here soon so perhaps that will help people (and really myself) fully understand what's going on.
    01-25-2011, 03:00 PM
Even softies like me who work with horses all the time understand there is a time when you have to be aggressive enough that your horse believes you are going to kill him. This has to be done WITHOUT anger or spite (he is a horse and does not fully understand that when he kicks you that it might kill you). But there are a few behaviors from horses that should be met with zero tolerance. Kicking at you, biting you, stomping on you, etc. When these behaviors are directed intentionally at you, you must show extreme aggression toward the horse. This means loud noises, smacks, snapping with the whip, hitting with rope, anything that will not actually injure your horse but will scare him into thinking you could kill him if you wanted to.
I agree with what this says.

My horse used to do this to me and now I hear he is testing my little sister some times in the same way.

When he would turn and kick at me I would smack his hind end with the end of my rope (because I didn't have a whip) not enough to hurt him but hard enough to catch his attention and at the same time I would pull his head around to face me so that he couldn't kick me. After 2-3 times of that he decided that if he was going to have to face me he would charge me. I reacted more than thought about it but my reaction was to first get out of his way but second hold his lead like I was repelling off a mtn behind my butt this, at a weight of 95-100 lbs, allowed me the leverage to hold onto the 1000 lbs running horse. Have you ever seen a dog run to the end of it's leash only to be stopped cold and sent into a spin? Well THAT is exactly what happened to my horse. He was whipped around at the end of his lead rope and he just stopped and stared at me and I think we both had the same reaction "Did that really just happen?" He tried a few more times but each time he did I made it very clear to him that that was not an act I wanted him to ever repeat and eventually he stopped. Now I am working with my little sister so she can re teach him the same lesson.... he likes to test newbies.
    01-25-2011, 07:45 PM
Before I post anything,I just want to let people know first off,I am not a huge fan of whips,but sometimes it is necessary to give a horse like the posters a good smack on the butt,not too hard just enough to get their attention.I've delt with quite a few kickers in the past and actually had the same situation come upon me with my new mare. Basically the same thing:Spazz out and gallop around the round pen at mach three kicking out at me,nearly took my head off.I tried to avoid using my dressage whip by turning her over and over again and even tried letting her run herself out.But she wouldn't quit the hissy fit,so when she yet again galloped too close for comfort and when to kick at me I landed a good but not too hard smack on her butt.She stopped almost immediately stopped.Again,I try everything else before resorting to a smack with a whip.But in a highly dangerous situation like the posters, unfortunately this measure is is a necessary measure.

To the poster all I can suggest to you is if you try letting him run his self out,or any other tactics and non work,all I can say is he may need a good smack on the butt with your lunge whip.But again,try other things first.
    01-25-2011, 08:04 PM
If you are close enough to smack her butt with a dressage whip, you are too close, imo. Lunge whip, nh "happy stick" or end of the line- would be better.
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    01-25-2011, 08:08 PM
Not going to lie, I wouldn't put up with that. People send horse's to my trainers who have bad behavior about things like that (but not just like that haha:) ) And he fixes that. He doesn't abuse by any means, he just basically shows them who the boss is and doesn't let them get away with it. Try sending him to someone like that? He seems like a nice horse in the ground, but if he has more energy than normal, lunging is kind of a must, I would think.

I've had mine for 3 almost 4 years and still to this day I lunge him until he's very tired. He's now 8 years old and dead broke. Otherwise, he still tries to buck or the occasional spook at something stupid. But that's just his mentality haha :)

Really, good luck with him! I'd be scared of him too!
    01-25-2011, 08:15 PM
Well, no offense, but some of us wouldn't put up with a horse who is "dead broke" and bucks unless you lunge the $#*t out of them prior to riding.
I do agree that kicking is, at least for me, a "deal breaker". That means that if my horse would try to kick me, he would honestly think he was going to die for a few seconds. If it meant actually using my whip on his butt-so be it. I will not tolerate dangerous behavior, and I will be VERY clear that it is not acceptable
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    01-25-2011, 08:17 PM
Originally Posted by franknbeans    
Well, no offense, but some of us wouldn't put up with a horse who is "dead broke" and bucks unless you lunge the $#*t out of them prior to riding.
I do agree that kicking is, at least for me, a "deal breaker". That means that if my horse would try to kick me, he would honestly think he was going to die for a few seconds. If it meant actually using my whip on his butt-so be it. I will not tolerate dangerous behavior, and I will be VERY clear that it is not acceptable
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You don't have the lunge the crap out of him, you just have to lunge him until he's not completely fresh. Which isn't long, try about 5 minutes.
    01-25-2011, 08:29 PM
I'd like to suggest that trainers are no good unless they teach you to handle your horse better. If the whisperer's any good, he'll tell you what to do.

Also, I'd step back a couple of steps with the horse, because usually it's not a great foundation if that's happening on the longe. It's just that the horse is telling you in subtle ways that he doesn't get a good "feel" from you, that you haven't noticed. When he gets out there, the subtle turns into obvious.
    01-25-2011, 09:01 PM
Clinton Anderson: Move Your Horse's Hind End

Sorry, didn't read all the posts, so somebody might have already suggested this. The above is a link to a Clinton Anderson exercise I saw where he gets the horse to yield his hindquarters. If you do this exercise well, the result will be a horse who moves his butt away as soon as you look at it. I think it would be a very effective exercise for a horse who is pushing the limits in that area in particular. Hopefully there's some video of it too, since still photos don't always show the full effect.

afraid of my horse, aggression, kicking, lounging, lunging

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