If you are close enough to smack her butt with a dressage whip, you are too close, imo. Lunge whip, nh "happy stick" or end of the line- would be better.
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Agree with this. Primarily in the interests of safety and secondarily in the interests of training.
I'd like to suggest that trainers are no good unless they teach you to handle your horse better. If the whisperer's any good, he'll tell you what to do.
Also, I'd step back a couple of steps with the horse, because usually it's not a great foundation if that's happening on the longe. It's just that the horse is telling you in subtle ways that he doesn't get a good "feel" from you, that you haven't noticed. When he gets out there, the subtle turns into obvious.
Excellent point, training the horse is only half the battle, and I don't mean that to be offensive Infinity! It is just important that you are comfortable working with your own horse and learn the techniques to deal with his bad behaviour.
I don't think that anybody is fully understanding this, and perhaps it is my fault. I will try to get a video of this as soon as my ground isn't slippery mud.
Basically, this is the break down of what happens. The lunge line is placed on the horse (and for the last several months it has been by a PROFESSIONAL trainer, who I like very much, and has achieved a lot with him, minus the lunging. She begins moving with him in a small circle. The first thing he does is pivot. That is probably my fault, because I taught him to pivot at a young age and have rewarded him greatly for that. Eventually (meaning like, the fourth or fifth try), he will begin to WALK in a circle at the lunge. He does it well until about the third time around, and then without any instigation (nothing has changed with the trainer, she isn't asking him to do anything different), and without getting hyper, bolting, speeding up, or bucking, he just stops and kicks at the person who is lunging him's head.
The trainer deals with this IMMEDIATELY by yelling, throwing the rope at his hind end or using the whip on his hind end, and turning his head towards her. SHe does this all at the same time, which seems like it's exactly in line with what has been suggested on here.
He reacts to this in three seperate ways. The most severe way is, instead of turning his head towards her when she pulls it in that direction, he well violently buck backwards. Basically, she's pulling his head at her, and instead of turning he's just bucking into her.
The second reaction that he has done in the past is pretty much the same thing, except he will bunny hop backwards instead of violently buck, and try to knock the person down with his butt. He has only done this with the first trainer, though, who doesn't see him anymore.
The other thing he will do is stop the kicking and continue to walk in a circle for a few times before he decides he's done. If that happens, he will either kick again, just stand there (which he will do, with absolutely no reaction to the rope, the whip, clicking, kissing, or yelling), or coming into the center (again, with absolutely no reaction to being corrected). The latter is the most common one.
He's really only kicked out of excitement a few times. 90% of the time is when he is perfectly calm and walking. His only warning sign is that he starts to lose focus (whether he sees something or hears something), and bringing his attention back towards the handler only works about 30% of the time.
WOW. On the contrary, I think I DO understand. In fact this situation sounds too dire and dangerous for me to feel good about offering advice in a forum environment.
He has other problems, too, but they're easily explainable. He's horrible with the farrier, but at the same time, he's young, doesn't understand, and gets bored easily. He's fine if he's busy (like if I pez feed him treats). His previous farriers just sedated him, which wasn't solving the problem. I found a great farrier who will hold on to him even if he has all four feet in the air or has laid down and is trying to roll over (he seems to think that if you pick his foot up high, he needs to lay down).
Issue no.1: Sedating doesn't solve anything. If anything it just makes things worse. This information tells me that the horse has serious issues, complete lack of respect for people and major holes in its training.
The second problem he has is when you lead him down a hill, he charges. I'm not sure if it's a balance problem, because it's only on steep hills, or if he just thinks it's fun. A place I had him boarded at had a steep hill, and they told me when the sun started coming up he'd run up the hill and run back down, for apparently no reason, until he was fed.
Issue no. 2: If it were a balance issue you would see a stumble, a missed step or perhaps a general unwillingness to go down the hill. Charging down the hill tells me that he does not see his handler as a leader in any way shape or form.
Other than that, he's perfect.
Other than what? Potentially being life threatening? Bucking backwards into the handler while kicking at their head?
He does all the Parelli excercises with ease (except lunging, of course). Nothing spooks him. He pivots, can say "yes" on command, bows, knows the words "over", "back", and "come", lets you hug all over him, mess with his ears, nose, whatever. He's just a big goof. He can be saddled, I can get up on him and be led around, but it's really never progressed more than that because if I can't lunge him, I'm worried about driving him.
I would not be driving him either! No freakin way!
Please don't be offended by anything I have said, or am about to say but this horse is seriously concerning. Actually I think the lungeing is the least of your concerns, it is just one symptom of a far greater underlying issue: Your horse has no respect.
In my opinion, I would also be keeping the 'hugging all over him' to a minimum as it is showing him that it is OK to be in your personal space.
At 3 years old he is only going to get bigger and uglier if he doesn't start viewing you as the boss. Sure he might be sweet sometimes but that has no value if he is allowed to dictate when he chooses to behave and when he chooses to put you in danger.