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Problems lounging (Horse kicks at my head)

This is a discussion on Problems lounging (Horse kicks at my head) within the Horse Training forums, part of the Training Horses category

     
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        01-26-2011, 01:11 AM
      #41
    Foal
    First off, he is never allowed to come into my personal space. When I say hugging all over him, I always come to him, and it's always as a reward. Say, for example, he is doing really well standing still with a saddle on his back. I will come up to him and scratch his neck. He has a special spot on the top of it that he likes.

    Also, my trainer involves me in almost all of his training. The problem with that lies in the lunging. He isn't really safe for anyone to lunge, and I am by no means a professional. I don't plan on "sending" my horse anywhere.

    He's a perfect gentleman whenever I am around him otherwise. He's never pushy, he's very patient, and every time I try to teach him something new you can see his mind work. He tries exceptionally hard to please. He's even been used to teach much older horses how to act around scary objects, like balloons and noise.
         
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        01-26-2011, 01:15 AM
      #42
    Foal
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Infinity    
    Also, my trainer involves me in almost all of his training. The problem with that lies in the lunging. He isn't really safe for anyone to lunge, and I am by no means a professional. I don't plan on "sending" my horse anywhere.
    I didn't mean you when I was talking about people not following through at all,sorry if you thought I meant you.I really didn't.again,sorry about that...
         
        01-26-2011, 01:15 AM
      #43
    Foal
    Also, I don't want to sound like I'm defending my horse or my behavior, because obviously I know that there's a problem. I just think that there's something else going on. Perhaps I inadvertadly taught him to not trust whoever is lunging him, because of him being twitched? Or could it be that he keeps doing that because one time he was put away for it, and he thinks that if he kicks then he doesn't have to lunge? Could he be too emotionally immature and therefore be getting bored with walking in a circle, and be kicking to gain more entertainment?

    These are all just thoughts that I have been having. Please answer truthfully.
         
        01-26-2011, 07:49 AM
      #44
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Infinity    
    Also, I don't want to sound like I'm defending my horse or my behavior, because obviously I know that there's a problem. I just think that there's something else going on. Perhaps I inadvertadly taught him to not trust whoever is lunging him, because of him being twitched? Or could it be that he keeps doing that because one time he was put away for it, and he thinks that if he kicks then he doesn't have to lunge? Could he be too emotionally immature and therefore be getting bored with walking in a circle, and be kicking to gain more entertainment?

    These are all just thoughts that I have been having. Please answer truthfully.
    You are right, there may very well be any one of the above, some, or even a bit of all. Keep thinking and trying stuff, brainstorm with your trainer, and work it out.
    I am convinced that when mine behaves badly he is testing me. I am his 6th owner, and he is only 7. Now that it has been almost a year, I am really starting to see that he is bonding more, and investing more....trying harder to please, etc.
    Good luck and stay safe!
         
        01-26-2011, 11:25 AM
      #45
    Trained
    "The problem is, as soon as you get him on the lunge line and try to get him moving, he kicks at your head. I've even had him do this for a professional trainer. It's not even him kicking just to kick. He turns his butt at you and will back up in your direction. He's even chased me once or twice. He managed to get me in the chin once. It dislocated both sides of my jaw and split my lip."

    "He reacts to this in three seperate ways. The most severe way is, instead of turning his head towards her when she pulls it in that direction, he well violently buck backwards. Basically, she's pulling his head at her, and instead of turning he's just bucking into her.

    The second reaction that he has done in the past is pretty much the same thing, except he will bunny hop backwards instead of violently buck, and try to knock the person down with his butt. He has only done this with the first trainer, though, who doesn't see him anymore."

    "He has other problems, too, but they're easily explainable. He's horrible with the farrier, but at the same time, he's young, doesn't understand, and gets bored easily. He's fine if he's busy (like if I pez feed him treats). His previous farriers just sedated him, which wasn't solving the problem. I found a great farrier who will hold on to him even if he has all four feet in the air or has laid down and is trying to roll over (he seems to think that if you pick his foot up high, he needs to lay down).

    The second problem he has is when you lead him down a hill, he charges. I'm not sure if it's a balance problem, because it's only on steep hills, or if he just thinks it's fun. A place I had him boarded at had a steep hill, and they told me when the sun started coming up he'd run up the hill and run back down, for apparently no reason, until he was fed.

    Other than that, he's perfect..."

    This is not a horse that merits Internet analysis. It is a dangerous horse. You couldn't sell him if you disclosed his behavior, and you'd be liable if you sold him without disclosing. Even with full disclosure, you probably have some liability risk if either the trainer or farrier is badly hurt.

    If I owned him, the answer would be a 30-06. Why? Well, I recently sold a purebred Arabian mare, 8 years old, for $600. She is small, but could carry 200+ lbs on her back all day. We bought her for $800, I spent around $2000 having her trained, then rode her until she was more experienced, and then my youngest daughter started taking lessons on her. If she didn't hate my gelding, I'd have kept her even tho we didn't need 3 horses.

    She is spirited and enthusiastic. She expects to be treated like a lady and gets bitchy if she thinks she isn't - but she'll give you everything if you just say please and thank you. She loves people, loves to just stand near them, stands quietly while being groomed, tacked up and mounted, lifts her feet for the farrier and was a sweetheart getting her teeth worked on. She can be lunged free or on a rein if you wish, or you can just get on her and ask her for what you want.

    Her market value on the current market was probably around $1000-1200, but I didn't advertise her. A couple living near me wanted a younger Arabian so their 27 year old Arabian could retire from trail rides, and she now lives 1.5 miles from me.

    And I sold her for $600.

    What is the point of keeping a horse that has broken your jaw and acts aggressive around humans? You can make your own decisions, but if anyone gets hurt by your horse, they may think you should be held accountable for those decisions. I don't know you, and you can take any chances you want.

    You wrote "...he's definitely a loved member of this family." That's part of the problem. Horses are not family. They are not human. But if my son broke my jaw, or attacked others, I'd put him in prison. The time for understanding would be past, and it would be WAY past the time for asking advice on the Internet.
         
        01-26-2011, 11:36 AM
      #46
    Trained
    BSMS-we are all entitled to post questions, issues, etc, and ask for help analyzing whatever we see as an issue. That is why it is a forum. To discuss things.

    Many times it is very helpful in brainstorming an issue and helping us work it through.

    Noone should be chastized(sp) for asking.
         
        01-26-2011, 11:43 AM
      #47
    Foal
    Bsms has a point as to the liability issue and you obviously don't want to sell him so that's not something to worry about for now, also your trainer obviously knows the risks and knows what the horse is capable of and is okay with it so I don't for see a problem there.

    I do agree that your horse lacks respect for both you and his trainer and this is where the danger comes in. Even if he is normally a gentleman in all other cases he isn't for the farrier and not for your trainer. I am glad you found a farrier who was willing to work with you against a problem rather than just sedating the horse, good move! It sounds like your trainer is doing all he knows how to fix the problem the same things we all would be doing. I do think though that you may need to go back to basics with him seeing as he is young and has no respect for anyone. A round pen would really come in handy for this. If I where you I wouldn't be asking how to fix his lunging but ideas on how to teach him respect. Respect will fix all your problems I think, the farrier, the down hill problem and possibly the lunging. Work on respect and see where that takes you, if doesn't fix the problem then there is something else going on..... You also need to be able to trust him at all times and you can't begin to trust him again until he has been taught respect.
         
        01-26-2011, 12:06 PM
      #48
    Trained
    Some problems are appropriate for Internet discussions, and some go beyond them. Questions with significant risk of death - should I have heart surgery or just hope for the best - are problematic for Internet advice. If I called up the lady who trained our mare to ride and teaches my daughter and asked her about a horse she hadn't met who had broken someone's jaw, she would refuse to say anything over the phone.

    As for liability: I'm not a lawyer. I will suggest the owner of this horse consult a lawyer. In AZ, you can call the state bar and they will refer you to a lawyer who specializes in your question, and the lawyer will give you a 30 min consult. The total cost is $35.

    I would be very nervous owning an animal that had acted aggressively, and that had the power to kill someone with one blow. Just me. My Internet advice is to call a lawyer and sink $35 into an answer. She might want it in writing.
         
        01-26-2011, 12:11 PM
      #49
    Foal
    And if you owned this horse what would you do with it bsms? You said you wouldn't be able to sell it but obviously you wouldn't want to keep it, so what would you do put it down before attempting to figure out what's wrong?
         
        01-26-2011, 12:17 PM
      #50
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by horsplay    
    And if you owned this horse what would you do with it bsms? You said you wouldn't be able to sell it but obviously you wouldn't want to keep it, so what would you do put it down before attempting to figure out what's wrong?
    From the description, this has been going on for a while. If it broke my jaw, and previous farriers had felt the need to sedate it before working, then yes - I'd kill it. There are a lot of wonderful horses out there that need a home where they will be fed, cared for and exercised. Why take chances on one that has problems that could seriously injure or kill someone?
         

    Tags
    afraid of my horse, aggression, kicking, lounging, lunging

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