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Productivity- am I doing okay?

1K views 15 replies 6 participants last post by  WhattaTroublemaker 
#1 ·
As many of you know, a week ago I trailered Trouble to our new house. I let him settle in for a few days (he settled great) and restarted his work. He's been off for a month or two because of the move, just being out to pasture being a horse.

So after he was settled I decided to lunge him to see what I had to refresh. His lunging skills were absolutely horrid. I used to work him in the round pen at Liberty and he was perfect with voice aids, body language the whole works. He wanted to pull on me and only go right. He would go left until a certain bush, then spin around and trot the other way. I had to nearly stand in front of him to get him to turn and he would only side step away from me. I worked an hour with him doing walk trot transitions and working up a light sweat.

Eventually he would walk by the bush, but still no trot. He didn't spook at it, but he would violently(think that's a good word for it) spin around and go the other way. I couldn't for the life of me get him to stop leaning on me either. I whoad him and switched to his rope halter, and drove him hard at a controlled lope, doing lope trot transitions. When I was satisfied I got him to walk by the bush going left for a cool down and ended on a good note.

I was thinking- lunging isn't doing ANYTHING for us right now so I'm going to leave it and start doing more productive things with him.

The next day I ground drove him up and down the road and trails in his halter and he performed beautifully. His whoa was perfect, when I told him to trot he picked up the pace instantly. I ended the day with pony rides for the kids and he's been fine since.

Should I really go back to lunging again or should I keep doing things to work his mind? My mum thinks I should lunge him because what he was doing was "disrespectful" but he was licking his licks and chewing the entire time, and on the lead his ground manners are perfect.

He still excels in his sending exercises when I send him through barrels, he yields his quarters, backs with a voice cue, stays out of my space, will drop his head for a halter or bridle, and I can flex him both ways. I just think lunging is boring for him now- he's a big boy, almost three and ready to be started under saddle seriously, not just kid rides and the occasional walk around the pasture.

I didn't see it as disrespect. I know my horse. At first I thought something was wrong so I checked his legs and feet and felt for heat but there was none. I even checked his eyes. I did get him to trot past the bush (left, he was fine going right) a few times so I called it good and cooled him off.
 
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#2 ·
I personally would go back and work on it. Maybe he was having a bad day, maybe he was confused, maybe you found a hole in your training, who knows...but, in my opinion, it'd be good to go back and get it ironed out.

To clarify, I'm not thinking it needs to be ironed out because lunging is any kind of super important, I'm thinking it should be ironed out because, in my opinion, nothing good can come of a horse deciding when and if he plans to listen to you. The horse's "job," in my opinion, should be to try.

Maybe he was confused and he needs a different approach - still not a good reason for him to freak out, but a good time for you to show him "hey, stay focused on me when you're worried and I'll help you figure out a solution that feels good!"
Maybe he was having a bad day - same thing, a time to show him "hey, you're having a bad day, but stay focused on me and we'll finish up asap."
Maybe it was a hole in his training that came out - "hey, we found something you don't know! Those will come up every once in a while, but stay focused on me and I'll help you through it."

I expect my horse to go where I tell him to, stay where I tell him to, and I expect him to at least try - even if he's worried. I gauge his anxiety and never ask for more than he can handle. That helps him start seeing those worrisome situations as less worrisome and more safe - because he knows I won't overface him and that he WILL get rewarded if he approaches something that makes him nervous.

I'd do a shorter session next time, an hour seems like quite a long time for a young horse who was off for a month and is in a new environment. I'd potentially try just bringing out the lungeline and have him do one full revolution around you at a walk, then call it quits and do something else. If he does that without an issue, the next day try two circles, and so forth.
If he has an issue with one circle around you, break it down even more - 2 steps, then stop...or whatever.
You want to catch him doing the correct behavior for the situation and reward that by taking the pressure away


The other thing with leaning on you is that, given how long he was off for, plus any change in feed/hay from the move, he may have lost the muscle that makes it possible for him not to lean on you.
I'd put his rope halter on him, do much shorter chunks like I previously described, and work on building his fitness back up. A month is a LONG time for a horse to be off, especially a young one!
 
#3 ·
I am a little confused. you say he was leaning on you, or was he pulling on the lead line? to me, leaning on me means he is going too close to me, putting his shoulder in on me, like cutting in on the circle. but, you are saying he was running awy and leaning out on the line?

to be honest, it sounds as if he either is uncomfortabel going in circles, or there is some thing that is really frightening him, or ? I would want to see a video of how you lunge him to be able to have an idea of how to help him get better at it. it's possible that your communication isn't clear.
 
#4 ·
Sorry!! He was leaning outward, as in keeping steady pressure away from me on the lunge. He was still circling, but just keeping constant contact on the line. A little more than I'd like. Also, he knows how to lunge, we did extensive walk trot halt drills on the lunge line and I was proud of his skills.

He also wasn't reacting to the "evil bush" in fear. It just seemed to be the place he'd swing around and go the other way. Going in the right direction he would trot all day, even by the bush, but going left he would trot to the certain point (that darn bush) and spin around and go the other way.

I do Clinton Anderson style lunging, (not quite as aggressive) with mostly body language so I checked myself and made sure I was behind his drive line but he'd do it anyway. I would cut him off and pop the crop to signal him to turn back to the other direction but he'd side pass away from it instead of turning around.

I changed tactics and thought "okay if you want to turn that way you have to work" so I did lope trot transitions on his "good" side, until I could turn him around and walk him in the left direction by his "turning bush". Eventually I moved him into the trot and made two circles on his "bad" side without him turning around so I ended it on that good note.

I hope that makes sense! If he continues to do it I'll get a video to make myself more clear!

Eta: he never truly ran away so to speak, he would always trot or walk as I asked, but he was keeping a little too much contact on the lungeline for my liking. He would also whoa immediately if I asked, turning toward me and licking his lips.
 
#5 ·
Agree a video would be useful
I never allow a horse to lean on that line, anymore then to lean on a rein when riding.
If a horse really wants to lean, then I will lunge him with a chain under the chin,changing hook up with direction
Just like when riding, as you get to a trouble spot, like that bush, you ride and drive that horse actively, before you get tot hat spot
Also, when asked to stop, I do not want the horse to automatically turn and face me, unless I then ask him to, after he has stopped parallel to me
Certainly have him checked for any physical reason he wishes to go in that one direction only\Lunging can become boring, so I don't lunge a horse for no reason, just as part of routine. However, if I do lunge the horse, I want him to go as asked, same as when ridden. One does transfer tot he other, far as ahorse then making executive decisions
 
#7 · (Edited)
Yes, I'll have to get a video. I do CA style, but I take a WAY less aggressive approach, since I don't need to be so so aggressive with Trouble. I used to have a round pen also. I did work on the line and at Liberty. Since we moved I don't have access to a round pen. Smilie, I don't have a lunge line with a shank, so I'll have to invest in one. I'm pretty sure he leans outward because he was always in the round pen and doesn't have that "barrier" on the outside to guide him. I'm going to try him again tonight and see how he is, and change my location away from that tough spot. When I do correct him it's not as aggressive as CA, I only had to get on him that hard about a year ago when he turned his butt toward me to throw his heels out. After that I went right back to our happy medium. I could drive him by the bush, walk and trot him in hand by the bush, and he'd happily stand eating the grass under it.
Eta for tiny:
We work a lot lighter than CA in the round pen. I only have to reposition my body and lift my hand to turn him around, instead of cracking the crop and jumping in front of his drive line. I guess it's CA refined :lol:
 
#8 ·
The round pen does have both an advantage, short term,and a disadvantage, used too long, for either lunging or riding
As you found out, the horse starts to rely on those walls to both guide and control him. Advantage, being, you can free lunge there, but learning to lunge out in the open is the next step.
If you are at a show, in a public arena, with other horses, you have to have 100% control of your horse on that lunge line
Horses will often be warming up under saddle, on the rail, while several are being lunged in the middle of that arena, before a show.
 
#9 ·
Did I ever find that out smilie! Thankfully he's pretty forgiving and I shouldn't have too hard of a time re-teaching him to lunge freely. This is my first colt I've started from the ground up, and he couldn't be a more perfect partner. I'll start at a walk on a loose line and work up to a trot again with a shank.
 
#11 ·
When I first broke Dreams to halter, and subsequently trained him to lunge, he was a HORRIBLE puller. As in, one day he DRAGGED me from one (long) end of the arena to the other - twice. Would not give to pressure to save his life. I used a stiff rope halter first, then one with knots on the nose, then a chain, then I finally had to use a chain plus knots on the nose. It took about 3 weeks but eventually he learned to give to pressure, and now he will listen to any pressure given on the lead. He's quite soft actually, I can flex him now with two fingers using a normal rope halter. I also use some of CA's methods so I can picture where the two of you are.
When Dreams was intent on dragging me across the border, I alternated pressure. Pull, release, pull, release. A steady pull encourages the horse to lean on you. On several occasions I had to get quite sharp with Dreams and really jerk on that nose to get him to listen (skidding across the arena like a barefooted waterskier comes to mind), but in your situation I don't think you'll need to do anything other than a few quick tugs, pull-release-pull-release. Other than that I think you did everything you could have - made the wrong thing difficult and ended on a high note. I second the opinion that you need to work on lunging more, since as previously stated you don't want the horse only listening to you when HE wants to, but other than that I think you're doing all right. Keep us updated on his progress!

-- Kai
 
#12 ·
Fox hunter- I never lunged with two lines before, I'll have to try it.

Kai- I love the app in your picture! Troubles never drug me around, but he's still putting a bit too much pressure on the line for my liking. I did the pull-release, but he was in a plain leather halter so I'll have to put the chain on and try again, I'm heading out to see what he's like today!
 
#13 ·
Lunging with two lines is preferred by some trainers, as it will keep a horse more correct, far as the pit falls of lunging, but does take some skill
You are basically ground driving, in a circle, while standing off set and still

The chain works great, used as just a little reminder, if the horse pulls, teaching him to lunge with slack.Just like when using it leading in hand, it has to be attached so that it only comes into play if the horse pulls, and immediately released when he gives
Both methods will help you, so try what works for the two of you
 
#14 ·
Little update-

Since I don't have a line with a stud shank, I've been taking it slow at the walk. I put some ground poles out to keep his mind busy and we're slowly coming along. I trot him over the ground poles and then bring him back to a walk. With his rope halter on, we're doing good with no pulling. I'm acting like he doesn't know how to lunge, so starting from the beginning. His walk is now great, no pulling and a nice round bend. When trotting he lifts his back nice over the ground poles and only applies a bit of pressure which is corrected with a little yank, and he's rewarded by bringing it back down to a walk. I keep it short, only 10 minutes or so, and he's coming along nicely!
 
#15 ·
Glad it works.
As for alunge line with a stud shank, I don't have one either.
I just improvise for a day or so, until the horse gets the message, by tying my stud shank lead rope tot he end of a lunge line
Yes, you wind up with a bulky knot, where you join the two,but since I only need it a few times, not abig deal
 
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