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question for horse trainers

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        10-16-2013, 07:44 PM
      #21
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by PaintedFury    
    I think some of the others here have it right, too much horse and not enough rider (not you, the owner). It is not unusual for young horses to take advantage of frightened/timid riders. This horse needs a firm hand, like the one you provide. It may be time to suggest she gets a different horse.
    I agree. He's got holes (not 'wholes' like my previous post LOL) that a timid rider can't fix. Time go sell this one and find one she can ride. If you promised her a trail safe horse, I hope you didn't put a time limit on it because he is not.
         
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        10-16-2013, 10:18 PM
      #22
    Foal
    OK I'm not going to get in to a lengthy discussion how to recognize holes in training.
    She doesn't have holes and since you haven't seen her ride, you are just going to have to trust me on this one.
    She is completely calm and relaxed when I ride her and very willing. Not the type that tries to do her own thing. I do not need to keep correcting her. There is nothing to correct.
    Sure she is not finished horse, but I do not skip around. I do not progress to the higher step until the one I'm working on is perfect. There is a lot more to learn, there is no need to be going back to basics though.
    I have taken her on group trail rides and everyone was impressed what a nice horse she is. I've even ridden her in town. Her ground manners are great.
    The owner will never sell her. She has seen how nice she rides. She just wants her to be that way for her.
    To her horses are not disposable. She loves her mare and she prefers to take lessons herself to become more confident rider than to get rid of this mare. My client already has a steady ride. She has no need to be buying a new horse. She wants to be able to ride this one.
    Anyway this is not my, or her problem. I didn't need advice on whether to get rid of this mare. I just wanted to know what else I could try.
    The mare has trust issues. She is not trying to bully anyone. She panics, that is different from misbehaving.


    As far as walking next to the horse, well we all have our own way to fix problems; all I can say horse with a broken mind is not an average horse, and whatever works for the average horse may just push the problem one to the point where there is no coming back. You really have to be open minded working with problem horses and pay attention to what works for he horse. I am not talking specifically about this mare now. I am generally talking about horses that ran out of chances and people brought them here as their last stop. Horses that "professional" trainers refused to work with, labeled them untrainable and dangerous. None of them had to be put to sleep so far. So do not judge my training just because it is not the same as yours. It works for me and the horses I work with. They get to go home and the owners get to use them. That's all that matters isn't it?

    I really do appreciate all the replies with ideas on what I could try.
    I have talked to my client and she is going to work on the one rein stop for a couple of lessons, also emergency dismounts and all the safety stuff I can come up with. I believe once I build up my client's confidence the mare will stop panicking.
         
        10-16-2013, 10:26 PM
      #23
    Yearling
    It really sounds to me like that problem is the horse’s owner and her current level of skill and confidence on a horse. I’m guessing the horse is pretty young still? If so, is it possible for the owner to spend more time riding something a little more compatible to her confidence/ability for the time being and work her way up to her horse? Probably no real need to get rid of it, just get her riding to a level she can actually ride the thing; all I mean is that if she keeps losing control of her horse she may really loose all hope, whereas if she were to ride something a little compatible, she will learn and progress and before she knows it be riding her horse???
         
        10-16-2013, 10:49 PM
      #24
    Foal
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AnrewPL    
    It really sounds to me like that problem is the horse’s owner and her current level of skill and confidence on a horse. I’m guessing the horse is pretty young still? If so, is it possible for the owner to spend more time riding something a little more compatible to her confidence/ability for the time being and work her way up to her horse? Probably no real need to get rid of it, just get her riding to a level she can actually ride the thing; all I mean is that if she keeps losing control of her horse she may really loose all hope, whereas if she were to ride something a little compatible, she will learn and progress and before she knows it be riding her horse???
    Thank you AndrewPL. Yes, she is just 4.
    I wish my client had her steady ride here that I could have her practice all the safety on first. (Her horses are 4 hours drive away from here.)
    I cannot put her on my mare, she is well trained, but doesn't give anything for free.
    My other mare is a mustang that was wild for the first 4 years of her life. She is safe, but has very little training on her. Still may be a better idea to put her on that one first. My client has been riding horses for a lot of years, she is just used to horses that know what to do even if the rider doesn't.
    It is a good idea though. I'll think through my options, maybe I could borrow my neighbors horse.
    AnrewPL likes this.
         
        10-17-2013, 02:54 AM
      #25
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by thesilverspear    
    It sucks, as a trainer, feeling like you are in a position where you may need to advise someone that they have an inappropriate horse for their skill level, temperament, or riding style, and it's not possible to turn their sharp, spooky nutball horse into a beginner-safe plod in a relatively short time frame.
    It sucks indeed, however, it is a necessary part of the job.
         
        10-17-2013, 05:22 AM
      #26
    Yearling
    If I had a method for giving nervous riders the skills and confidence to not be nervous at all anymore and be able confidently and happily ride their young, sharp horses and do it all in weeks or months, I'd be making a million dollars.

    As this isn't the case, the only way forward I see for the OP is to put a lot of miles on this horse and have its owner get a lot of miles on a quiet horse. The horse may become less reactive as she matures --some do, some don't -- and the owner may develop the confidence to better deal with the horse's reactivity. Or not. Some people never do.
    All4Crystal likes this.
         
        10-17-2013, 10:22 AM
      #27
    Weanling
    I understand that horses are not disposable to some people. And to me, selling a horse that you yourself can not handle is not disposing of one. It is facing reality. Just because you can't handle the horse's spooking and being young does not mean that you can not find an appropriate home for it. It's not like having a horse that no one can control and finding a good home for it. She simply has a horse that is from your description well beyond her riding level, so she has a couple of options; keeping trying to ride this horse and possibly totally shatter her confidence and never want to ride again; ride another horse for a while and hope that will build her confidence and ability to be able to handle this one; sell this one and buy something a little more in line with her current riding ability; or pay someone to ride this horse for her. But at the end of the day, it's the owner's decision, but as the trainer you need to sit her down and have a serious talk about what is going on and likely to go on.

    Reality is a witch, and a lot of people don't like to hear that their horse is well beyond their ability, but sometimes they need to hear it before something serious happens. Personally, I would be sitting her down for the talk because I wouldn't want it on my conscience that something happened and I didn't at least try to talk to her about it. But that's just me.
         
        10-17-2013, 03:44 PM
      #28
    Super Moderator
    I think that all to often when we are starting young horses, the mistake is made of being to soft. I am not advocating knocking a horse around but, when leaning over them slap them on the sides, ditto when you first get on them.

    I think that with this horse, the owner being nervous/unsure, is the main contributing factor.

    I have had several horse that acted out of character with a different rider. One, a. Rey intelligent sharp 3 year old TB, would put in the odd buck or three, to see what would happen. They were never to drop me but just a 'whoopee' I am loving this. When he was ridden for the first time by a very experienced lad, he dropped him three times leaving the stables.

    Another lovely young horse was broken by his owner. He was a big horse and she quite short. She entered the horse in a show and, because he was rarely ridden with other horses, he was a bit wary but didn't put a foot wrong - until the judge came to rode him!
    The man was a good 6 feet in height and when he put his long legs on the horse, it freaked because it had never had legs down that far!
    He was, quite rightly unplaced although he was the best horse in the arena.

    I offered to ride him in the warm up area. As it was lunch break there were no other horses being ridden in there so, being the nice kind person I am, I nagged the horse. I flapped my long legs against his side, slapped him on the neck, the butt and his sides. His owner came in on her other horse and was riding her all around the youngster. He got very uptight about this but, after a while he accepted it. Well, that was until I was walking him on the right rein and the other horse came cantering towards him.
    I knew the rider was going to leg yield to the inside, the horse knew she was going to move to the inside but the youngster didn't! He shot to the right, took off across the arena bucking.
    I was laughing until I realised he was locked on to jumping the rails out the arena, luckily I managed to swing him away.
    Altogether I rode that horse for about 45 minutes and he never cared about any of the horses that came into the arena.
    He entered his next class, behaved impeccably and went beautifully for the judge. He won. This entitled him to enter the Championship. As my friends mare had also qualified, she asked me to ride the youngster.
    He won the Championship.

    Later I was talking to the judge and he remarked what a lovely horse he was. He then went on to say that he had been watching me work him in the arena and 'break' him in.

    I do not sit quietly on a youngster. I swing my arms around, flap my legs, do all things that might happen and they are use to it from the start.
    COWCHICK77 likes this.
         
        10-17-2013, 08:49 PM
      #29
    Foal
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Foxhunter    
    I think that all to often when we are starting young horses, the mistake is made of being to soft. I am not advocating knocking a horse around but, when leaning over them slap them on the sides, ditto when you first get on them.

    I think that with this horse, the owner being nervous/unsure, is the main contributing factor.

    I have had several horse that acted out of character with a different rider. One, a. Rey intelligent sharp 3 year old TB, would put in the odd buck or three, to see what would happen. They were never to drop me but just a 'whoopee' I am loving this. When he was ridden for the first time by a very experienced lad, he dropped him three times leaving the stables.

    Another lovely young horse was broken by his owner. He was a big horse and she quite short. She entered the horse in a show and, because he was rarely ridden with other horses, he was a bit wary but didn't put a foot wrong - until the judge came to rode him!
    The man was a good 6 feet in height and when he put his long legs on the horse, it freaked because it had never had legs down that far!
    He was, quite rightly unplaced although he was the best horse in the arena.

    I offered to ride him in the warm up area. As it was lunch break there were no other horses being ridden in there so, being the nice kind person I am, I nagged the horse. I flapped my long legs against his side, slapped him on the neck, the butt and his sides. His owner came in on her other horse and was riding her all around the youngster. He got very uptight about this but, after a while he accepted it. Well, that was until I was walking him on the right rein and the other horse came cantering towards him.
    I knew the rider was going to leg yield to the inside, the horse knew she was going to move to the inside but the youngster didn't! He shot to the right, took off across the arena bucking.
    I was laughing until I realised he was locked on to jumping the rails out the arena, luckily I managed to swing him away.
    Altogether I rode that horse for about 45 minutes and he never cared about any of the horses that came into the arena.
    He entered his next class, behaved impeccably and went beautifully for the judge. He won. This entitled him to enter the Championship. As my friends mare had also qualified, she asked me to ride the youngster.
    He won the Championship.

    Later I was talking to the judge and he remarked what a lovely horse he was. He then went on to say that he had been watching me work him in the arena and 'break' him in.

    I do not sit quietly on a youngster. I swing my arms around, flap my legs, do all things that might happen and they are use to it from the start.
    Oh absolutely.
    Trust me this horse has been desensitized to anything I could think of. I do not train the way you described some people do. Most of my clients are older people and not so agile. I make sure the horse is used to slipping saddle, or stirrups falling and hitting it on the side, or the accidental kick in the butt or tummy while getting on. I even get them used to the accidental slip and fall, just in case my client looses balance. I wouldn't want the horse jump and step on my client. I teach them to keep all 4 feet glued to the ground no matter what goes on until they are asked to move out. I make sure it stands still, even if it takes 15 minutes and several tries to get on. I take my coat of and wave it all around while I ride. I drop stuff on the ground while we ride, break off twigs, or clap my hands. I make safe horses, and this one is that way...for me.
    Someone once asked if I'm mentally challenged after seeing what I do getting them ready for trails. I am kind to the horse, but I do not tiptoe around them.
         
        10-17-2013, 09:01 PM
      #30
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by All4Crystal    
    Someone once asked if I'm mentally challenged after seeing what I do getting them ready for trails. I am kind to the horse, but I do not tiptoe around them.
    I actually laughed when I read that. Actually sounds pretty familiar.
    All4Crystal likes this.
         

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