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Question? Reasonable Expectations on Horse Training

4K views 14 replies 10 participants last post by  trailhorserider 
#1 ·
I would appreciate some clarity from the group on reasonable expectations from a horse trainer when you put a horse "in training".

To give you a brief background on my situation, I purchased a 6 year old quarter horse that had been ridden sporadically most of his life, about a year ago. I wanted to get back into riding and he needed a good home.

You could lead him, pick up his feet, saddle and ride him. However, he did not move off the leg or neck rein. He was just kind of all over the place with his body.

Also, he had been desensitized pretty well. You could throw ropes all over him without much of a reaction. Generally, he was/is a nice horse with an affectionate personality. However, he tended to be a bit lazy and he had poor ground manners.

In July of 2011, I decided I did not have the skill to improve his ground manners and make him proficient in collecting himself, moving off the leg, side passing and neck reining. I felt he was worth the hefty financial investment to have him trained by a professional. My goal was to have a "finished" trail horse.

I found a trainer at a local equestrian facility that trains for western pleasure. She had an excellent reputation and seemed very capable. Her training program consisted of five rides per week. Each training session was about 1 hour to 1.5 hours long. I also would get one lesson per week.

My horse has been in training for about 4 months, now. Due to the trainers show schedule and my work schedule, I have not been able to get my weekly lessons. I have had about 5 lessons during the last 4 months. When I did have a lesson, it was very helpful and I felt my horse and I were learning.

Also, I did go out and work with my horse on my own about 2 times a week.

So my horse will be coming home at the end of this week, because I am out of training funds. His ground manners are greatly improved and he has learned to move off the leg. He still seems uncollected, unless he is in a martingale, and he cannot side pass, or neck rein.

I have to admit, I'm a little discouraged. So I need reality check from everyone.

Is it reasonable to expect a horse to be profitent in what I requested in ~ 80 hours of training over the last 4 months, assuming the horse and owner are not nut jobs?

Any insight would be appreciated. Thanks for reading!
 
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#2 ·
It depends on the horse. The first things horses need to be taught is to move off of leg, and then sidepassing, neckreining, collecting and such. Also, it depends what you mean by 'collecting". Do you mean having him be responsive and relaxed when riding, or using the topline (poll to hindquarters) and bringing his hind legs under him? Im a dressage rider, but im assuming that western pleasure riders collect horses like that to. The first one, that is a reasonable goal. However, the topline one should be reserved to after they get well trained in all the basics and are well enough developed for it (your horse is 6 so thats fine, you just dont want like a 3 year old doing it for longish periods of time). It seems like you bit off more than you can chew, financially, experience, and time wise, but you have gotten into this and payed to have him trained so you obviously dont want to give him up. If you have any questions please feel free to message me!
 
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#3 ·
I think the trainer probably has done a fair job in the time she's had. Fair meaning decent but not spectacular. It takes time to build the muscles so that a horse can learn to 'collect' or 'round up' or 'carry himself in frame'. IMO by now, sidepassing is generally fairly easy to teach and I would have expected that goal to be met. I'm not sure about the neck reining because it depends on how she was bitting him up and what bits she was using whether or not that would be a reasonable expectation at this point. And actually, neck reining is kind of a misnomer because while you might lay a rein over his neck while turning, he really should be turning off of seat and leg cues and at this point (4months) that might be expecting a bit much.
 
#4 ·
Thanks Casey and Dreamcatcher!

To answer Casey, I was meaning collection as relaxed and responsive.

I was unaware of the progression of horse training. It's difficult to detach yourself emotionally from this sort of thing when if comes to a horse you feel is your partner and may not be getting the attention you feel he deserves.

I am not looking for a refund from my trainer, but to become more knowledgeable if I decide to get professional help in the spring.

I have to say, I was hoping more from the neck reining. It was more for me to ride comfortably on the trail.

Thanks again!
 
#7 ·
I think more progress could have been made. I've taken horses from unridden to where you want this horse in less than 4 months. If you want your horse to be a trail horse then don't take it to someone that trains in an arena. If I wanted to be an NBA basketball player I wouldn't train with the St.Louis Cardinals even though they are great athletes.
 
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#8 ·
It sounds like she was more invested in her schedule than her contract with you and your horse. Four months is QUITE A BIT of time and money and I think you should be frustrated. I'm in a somewhat similar situation. I think my horse was rode hard with training aides instead of addressing the real problems and when I rode him it was "my fault" he wasn't responding better. In four months he should be in top form based on the fact that he was already started just not finessed. Do get a trail trainer if you further his training. He needs "real world" experience not just a few hours in an arena! Keep up the ground work, that's where I'm at and it's helping tremendously! Good luck!
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#9 ·
Has she ridden a demo for you? Does he respond for her? I'd make sure you get out there before you pick him up and get another lesson and watch her ride him closely. If there isn't much improvement (especially under the goals of your contract) she should keep him longer and meet the goals with no further payments required. I grabbed my horse and ran because I was furious on his condition and her surprising methods! But if you feel she hasn't put in the time I'd ask for her to do the right thing and fulfill her duties.
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#10 ·
To be honest I'd expect more after 4 months if I had a professional trainer. I've noticed how much improvement I can have in one week with persistent work, after 4 months I'd expect pretty good improvement, even more so with a professional trainer. It sounds like all she has done in 4 months is to improve ground manners and get him moving of the leg... I'd be pretty annoyed about that. You'd probably have been able to get similar results by getting a weekly trainer out to instruct you and give you things to work on. Are you sure he's been worked as much as she claims? Do you have any recourse? I didn't even know people sent a horse to a trainer for four month, I thought it was a month, two at most, sort of deal.
 
#11 ·
It depends entirely on the person doing the training. Some people go over and over and over and over the same thing every day until the horse is completely perfect (which, by the way, never happens) before moving on to the next thing. Sometimes it depends on how effective the 'trainer' is at getting their timing right so that the horse learns the lesson quickly.

Perfect example is a guy I worked with today. He was riding a colt that he said he had put 50 rides on. The horse was only half *** neck reining and sidepassing and only when he felt like it. His stop was complete crap and it was a fight to get him to back up. I am using a colt that now has 12 rides on him and behaves better and knows more than his colt with 50 rides.

Not everyone knows how or is willing to teach them as quickly as they are capable of learning.
 
#12 ·
When I take my horses to a western pleasure trainer I expect them to be trained to show western pleasure. For the extreme collection required to show successfully, 4 months isn't really enough time to build the muscles that are required to carry the horse in frame. Also, he's 6 with sporadic training and riding history, so I'm guessing quite a bit of time had to be spent teaching him to go straight, since it says "he was all over the place with his body" and to get him responding to leg cues. So some unlearning and retraining had to take place too. He wasn't just a blank slate as an unstarted horse would be.

In showing western pleasure (on the Arabian circuit, I don't show QH's so they may be different here), I hold my left hand out above the saddle horn and the romal reins just below where they are joined by the quirt, so lots of drape in the actual rein part, and then I hold the bottom of the quirt in my right hand on my thigh. All of my 'steering' is done by seat and leg cues, not by moving my hand. It's actually bad form and will knock me from competition if I try to use the reins to direct my horse. The bit is, at the very least a spoon bit or a spade bit depending on the horse's degree of training. A horse over 5 MUST be shown in the bridle and horse under 5 MUST be shown in a bosal or snaffle (I haven't seen a horse in a snaffle in years in the ring). Especially the bitting and training to seat and leg cues can take quite a while to learn and polish.

So, if you just want a comfy trail horse then you need to follow up with a trail trainer (but make sure it's not an in the ring show "Trail Class" type trainer), you want a 'take it out and ride it on the trail' type trail trainer.

If you want a finished western pleasure horse you will need a year or more with your western pleasure trainer. In Western Pleasure you probably would never side pass, but you would get really good foundation on all your gaits, walk, jog, lope and back up. Then you'd go to a trail class trainer for him to learn how to negotiate the obstacles and to do that class in the show ring. At any point in time, with a previously broken horse, your trainer will probably find holes in his training. Depending on how severe the holes are, it may take one session or it might take 2 months to fill in the holes and then start to make progress. It's actually easier to start with an unbroken, unmessed with horse and start from square 1 and go from there.
 
#13 ·
Hi - I think what you've gotten out of the training is probably fair progress, all things considered. I hate to see that you did not make the most of your lessons. Lessons with the trainer really are immensely helpful for understanding what work is being done with the horse as well as learning how to replicate the trainer's methods and results.

A confused 6 year old is often going to be harder to deal with than a baby who doesn't know anything, good or bad. Retraining a horse and building up muscle takes time - so does PROPERLY training a horse. There is a difference between slapping a pair of draw reins and big spurs on a horse for 30 days and training it properly - the draw reins and spurs will get the horse looking okay - but the horse has learned NOTHING and when it goes home to the owner, they'll never be able to recreate the "training" unless they ride the same way.

My own horse is - at this point - a bombproof pro. I get a lot of compliments on him - what the people who are complementing him often don't realize is that he literally has YEARS of training on him. Not months - YEARS. I rode him and worked with him daily during our showing years - in conjunction with my instructors and trainers.

Truly training a horse - training it so that it fully understands what you are asking and does it correctly EVERY SINGLE TIME - takes a lot of work and a lot of effort. Its a job that is never over, either - because your horse is periodically not going to do it right, and its your job to continually correct him.

Also, a lot depends on your horse. Horses come in all shapes, sizes, athletic abilities and intelligence levels. Some horses learn more quickly than others, some are more willing to please than others. Some horse's conformation is a whole lot better suited to collection than others.
 
#14 ·
I few details that have come up since I began this posting.

I am getting an extra week of boarding and training, free of charge. I did not have to ask my trainer for this, so I really do think my trainer is reputable and she cares about a job well done. I am very happy she is willing to put in some extra time with me and my horse.

Thanks for all the input!

Thanks again all!
 
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