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Really bad biting problem

4K views 35 replies 21 participants last post by  iridehorses 
#1 ·
so i went to see my cousin yesterday and we went and check out her 5 year old stud... turns out he has the worst biting problem ever, i went to pet his face he was ok for a while then he went to bite me... i pulled back then tried again he tried to bite again... we ran out of ideas to do, she said her husband knocks him a good one in the nostril area, i tried twisting his lip.... any ideas.. would cutting him help stop the problem???
 
#2 ·
This is a training problem, not a gender problem. Gelding him might settle him down, but still..TRAINING issue here, you will more than likely still have this problem even if you have him gelded.
 
#3 ·
The most effective method is to "bite" him back. This has to be done within 3-5 seconds of him attempting to or actually biting you. Grab his lip, muzzle, any piece of skin near his mouth and pinch HARD. It shouldn't take very long for him to get the picture that biting is not a fun thing to do. After that, work on respect and boundries.
 
#4 ·
I agree that gender is not the issue. My first horse had a serious biting issue, which after 3 years (and him finally understanding it wasn't okay), left me with several scars on my arms, a messed up shoulderblade, and a huge respect and understanding of the horse's mouth and how to prevent biting. He probably started out innocently enough, and then as he got worse and worse, the previous owner decided to start punching him in the soft part of his nose. This to him just became another game to play, so he would shark you, and then jump back to avoid the fist. I was appalled when I got him, and the girl said to punch him in the nose. With him, because the face was now a game, I had to resort to basically ignoring him, and as soon as he started to try and bite, I'd smack him in the chest, and then continue on as if nothing had happened. It took three years before I could trust him enough to even turn to walk away. I agree that the lip or nostril pinching will work, and is a good idea to start out with, as long as he hasn't gotten to the point where he thinks that its a game to bite and dodge the fist. Otherwise, I'd smack him in the chest, just like a herd mate kicking him when he bites their butts. Biting is a serious issue, and I wouldn't take it at all lightly.
 
#5 · (Edited)
I disagree with physically punishing the horse, especially biting it(yuk too!) for reasons already stated, because punishment is NOT the most effective training tool, and because it is generally done too late.

IF you're going to punish a horse, it must be AT THE TIME of the behaviour you're wanting to effect - a second or more after it is too late. The punishment needs to be strong enough to put the animal off the behaviour - if he sees it as a game, challenge or is otherwise motivated to do the behaviour, he'll become desensitised to the punishment without it effecting his behaviour. In many instances, using enough force - especially when this horse has obviously been desensitised to rough treatment already - is way too hurtful to be considered reasonable. Punishment alone is also generally a short lived 'fix', if at all. Other more effective methods of behaviour modification such as positive or negative reinforcement should be used in conjunction in order to be effective.

I personally find using principles such as that of 'clicker training' to be the best, most effective method at changing attitude & behaviour of 'rude' or 'dangerous' horses. Rather than doing something Bad, which doesn't change their attitude towards you or whatever you're doing to 'deserve' getting bit, and risks making the behaviour worse, teach him that he gets Good Stuff when he's being 'polite' & misses out when he's 'rude'. Also focusses on teaching him the *right* behaviour, rather than you just getting hung up on preventing or reacting to the 'wrong' behaviour.
 
#6 ·
I'm going to offer a slightly different opinion. We get a fresh bunch of colts in every year, and I do find that studs are far more mouthy than fillies or geldings. Biting is a serious issue that needs to be dealt wih ASAP - you can't do anything with a horse without handling their head.
Maybe try a desensitizing technique. If He puts his head to you sniffing/looking for attention and he bites, rub his nose and face with both hands kinda hard and fast untill he gets sick of it and retreats. Do this every time he puts his face ito your space, and eventually he will learn it;s just not worth the aggravation. It sounds wierd, but it works.
 
#10 ·
First off, Why is she keeping him a Stud? Is he THAT great of a horse?
Was the first thing that came to my mind too actually. Especially as it sounds like they don't have the knowledge to handle him. And yes, I too agree that colts/stallions are often mouthier than others. Also like to play dominance games too, which this boy has inadvertently been encouraged at...
 
#8 ·
Groundwork, groundwork, groundwork! This horse obviously has no respect for human's space and needs to learn this as soon as possible before if escalates further. In-hand leading, lunging, long lining, natural horsemanship games--all of these will help him to understand boundaries.

They need to stop hurting this horse. Effective leadership cannot be won over with violence or force. It comes from trust, teaching, and firm guidelines that are followed.

I've met plenty of stallions with exceptional ground manners--this doesn't have anything to do with his being intact. Although I must ask, why is he not gelded? I think it's probably safe to say if your cousin cannot teach a horse basic ground manners, she should hire a trainer or sell her stud to someone with experience. Always do what is best for the horse.
 
#12 ·
Groundwork, groundwork, groundwork! This horse obviously has no respect for human's space and needs to learn this as soon as possible before if escalates further. In-hand leading, lunging, long lining, natural horsemanship games--all of these will help him to understand boundaries.

They need to stop hurting this horse. Effective leadership cannot be won over with violence or force. It comes from trust, teaching, and firm guidelines that are followed.

I've met plenty of stallions with exceptional ground manners--this doesn't have anything to do with his being intact. Although I must ask, why is he not gelded? I think it's probably safe to say if your cousin cannot teach a horse basic ground manners, she should hire a trainer or sell her stud to someone with experience. Always do what is best for the horse.



First of all i do not appreciate you assuming i cannot train a horse, and that i dont have experiece. He is a very nice horse once hes been worked with.....hence ive had two children in the past two years and that my husband was almost shipped to kuwait but had to have knee surgry instead. I dont agree with hitting the horse...but hes turned into an *** since no one has time for him. we are trying to sell him and we havent really tried to get rid of this biting problem yet, but im sure we will find something that works.
 
#9 ·
I've dealt with my mare, my gelding, and my uncles mare's biting problems...

With my uncles mare, well, I didn't mean to hit her like I did, but it was a reaction. I was leading a friend on her and the horse tried to take a chunk out of my shoulder... I whirled around with the lead rope in hand and the metal clip part knocked her right across the face. Didn't mean for it to, but it made her quit biting right then and there, and she'd been a 'nipper' for quite some time.

My mare was basically the same... it seems that my reaction when a horse bites me is to whirl around and, well... lol. I ended up and popped her across the chest/neck with the leather reins -hard-... after two times, she quit.

My gelding was, again, about the same. I was undoing the fence to put him up and he grabbed my shoulder and -crunched-... I dropped the fence and whirled around and popped him in the mouth with my fist. Hurt me more than it hurt him, but he hasn't tried to bite me since. He's four now, and when that happened he was about six months old.


I'd rather give my horses once or two sharp 'bites' to teach them instead of having to fight with them for ages and ages because you're not being 'hard' enough when you 'bite' 'em back...
 
#11 ·
If your horse is extremelly trusting of you and loves you, I think it would be fine to give him a slap! That's what I did to my colt, although he was gelded. If you have a horse that your still trying to win your confidence with, try some other method, like ...i have no clue. O_O lol But what worked with my colt was slapping his mouth, not hard enough to hurt him for more than a minute or two, just enough so he gets the point.
 
#14 ·
What worked for my mouthy horses is just everytime they tried to bite me I would give them a swift knock in the shin with my foot, not enough to hurt them but enough to make them associate biting with discomfort. Has worked everytime for me.
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#15 ·
im gunna say its more than likely a little of both. my stally has been taught respect and boundaries and will now never even try anything out of line. it used to be bad until i started getting physical and dominant with him when he did it. there are only a few things i will not tolerate and they are biting, kicking and striking. in all these instances i become the bad guy as you simply cannot have a stallion who thinks he can get it over you. whether its a bite or a kick or a strike i will whop him good. thing is everyone gets all up in arms about hitting a horse but my reasoning is that that horse was trying to hurt me and never thought twice about it. i am never trying to hurt my horse/s but my aim is to make them uncomfortable enough that they wont try it again. it always works and it doesnt involve waving a carrot stick around asking for his trust and respect. dont get me wrong im all for trust and respect between horse and owner however, im dealing with 450kgs of raw power and im 67kg of not so raw power...you do the math

i agree that in this instance the horse should not be a stud. stallions are for people who know exactly what they are doing and can deal with a situation. stallions can be very dangerous animals and if a stallion thinks for even a moment that he has it over you, youre screwed.

if they are intent on keeping him a stallion then they need to learn how to deal with him and how to react when he does it. in most instances it only takes one episode with proper negative reinforcement for the horse to get the picture.
 
#16 ·
i totaly agree with jazzyrider yea we all want the perfect relationship with our horses and people get all moany when you give them what for (only when really necesary) but what people need to realize is that if your horse is trying to bite you your trust and relationship are not perfect, and needs to be sorted, because like jazzyrider says do the math between horses weight and ours!! my horses trust me but also RESPECT me. even though they do get what for when they cross the line!! i know im going to get slated for this post but i dont care. i think with horses its the same as in any relationship there has to be a leader which shoudl be you and there should also be respect between both leader and follower!
 
#18 ·
i totaly agree with jazzyrider yea we all want the perfect relationship with our horses and people get all moany when you give them what for (only when really necesary) but what people need to realize is that if your horse is trying to bite you your trust and relationship are not perfect, and needs to be sorted, because like jazzyrider says do the math between horses weight and ours!! my horses trust me but also RESPECT me. even though they do get what for when they cross the line!! i know im going to get slated for this post but i dont care. i think with horses its the same as in any relationship there has to be a leader which shoudl be you and there should also be respect between both leader and follower!
this is a very very good point. i have heard people argue against this by saying that the horse will not trust you if you give it a whop for something. this also is untrue as horses are incredibly smart animals and when disciplined within a proper time frame they know exactly what they have done wrong. the only time you will find a horse that becomes jumpy at every hand movement after you have disciplined it will be the one who doesnt understand why he was being 'attacked'. this then is the handlers fault, not the horses.

its also the same as with children. a child with proper boundaries will love and respect its parents more than those without discipline and boundaries. im not saying to go pop your kids in the nose but you know what i mean :)
 
#17 ·
I have fortunately never had an equid that bit, but my mule gelding started getting mouthy around 2 years old. He reached for my shirt and I gave him a solid pop in the hollow part of his jaw (right behind where the bit goes) with my open, flat hand. It didn't hurt him at all, but it was a sharp smack sound that resonated in the hollow of his mouth, and really surprised him. He didn't try that again that day. He tried grabbing my coat the next time and I did it again with the same result. You cold see him thinking the whole process through, from beginning to end: "So, if I reach out to grab her coat... WOW loud pop on my head!... Hmm... perhaps I won't try that again today..." I think it took him three times and he never did it again.

I sort of equate it to the electric fence--put your nose there and get zapped! ;)
 
#19 ·
my horse is an ex stud, and he had a biting problem, a bad one. hed LUNGE at people and bite the hard. when i bought him, the moment i would see his mouth coming towards me, id whack him hard in the mouth with my hand or whatever i was holding, a brush, waterbottle, whatever. and if he made contact with my skin he'd get a whack within 2 seconds of him biting me. when punishing a horse you need to do it within like 3 seconds because if you wait longer then that, you might as well not punish at all because they wont associate the action with the punishment.

my horse hasnt biten me (or tried) in 7 months now
 
#22 ·
we had a trainer in a short while ago and Pumpkin had the same problem. he would bite alot. She told that biting/hitting him back is not the answer. you have to find what your horse responds to when he is told off. So, we found out that Pumpkin will quite doing what he is doing with a loud and meaning full "tar tart!". then we back him up a few steps gently and ask him to stand nice. He stopped biting with in the secong day, this being a major difference. I suggest you find how he 'clicks' wether it be a soft or loud warning like Pumpkin.
She told us that if we physicaly hurt him, he will become defensive and nip and bite even more.
Don't know if it will work for you but it has definatly helped with Pumpkin.
Good luck
 
#23 ·
loosie - thats fine :) everyone has different opinions and different ways of dealing with things. i speak from my own experiences. i have mentioned my stallions story and now ill mention another story. i do love a good story lol anyways, i have a 2 year old qh filly who has started getting a little full of herself lately. she has started more intense groundwork etc to ready her for breaking. a few weeks ago she was being extremely stubborn when being worked. she was doing well but then started testing her boundaries with me. she just stopped at one point and refused to move. i used my body language and swirled the rope around to move her forward (didnt hit her with the rope). she got very narky, spun, took 2 steps quickly backwards and doubled barreled me and got me. i didnt have time to get out of the way but i did have a second to put my arms up and cover my face. she got me fair on the underside of the arm. because i didnt dare look straight away as i wasnt sure if there were more kicks coming or not, she got away with it in the sense that i did not have time to get up her for it plus i let go of the rope when i was kicked and she took off.

i got an ice pack, put it on my arm for a bit, recaught her and started again. within about a minute she tried it again. i was ready though and had lunge whip in hand and cracked her fair on the butt just as she turned on me. i turned her around, and asked her again to move out and around. she did. not once since has she tried it and i worked her for another 30 minutes after this and obviously more since. not only has this made her think twice about booting me it has also snapped her out of the stubborn youngster stage she was going through. she now knows to listen and respect what i ask her to do.

before i go on i want to clarify that in any other instance i will not hit my horses. im actually well known for being a big fat softie (but im not fat lol) anyways, i only get this hard on them if they kick, bite or strike. this behaviour is putting me at risk. full stop. extreme actions call for extreme measures.

anyways, this is my experience and as long as this works for me i will continue to use it and fully support my methods. but everyone is entitled to their own opinions and methods and i respect others thoughts. just giving my own thoughts :)
 
#26 ·
within about a minute she tried it again. i was ready though and had lunge whip in hand and cracked her fair on the butt just as she turned on me. i turned her around, and asked her again to move out and around. she did. not once since has she tried it and i worked her for another 30 minutes after this and obviously more since. not only has this made her think twice about booting me it has also snapped her out of the stubborn youngster stage she was going through. she now knows to listen and respect what i ask her to do.
Well apart from ideas of 'stubborn' & 'respect', which I could, but won't:wink: bother going into my opinion about:lol:, I agree with your tactic and would have done exactly the same....hard!

Hard to get through exactly what I mean just in writing sometimes, with all the 'ifs & buts' but I was trying to explain that I don't think punishment is useless or always the 'wrong' idea at all, just that I think it's important to understand it's many limitations & 'side effects' before considering whether it's a good idea in a given circumstance.

What I *might* do differently(tho with little info, not assuming what you do & why) is firstly remember that this 'quick fix' is not likely to be permanent, so a) be ready for the next 'outburst', and b) work out what led to it & try to do things differently to avoid/change her attitude in the future. I would consider that *perhaps* I was asking too much, or too soon, or not being clear enough or not providing enough motivation & reinforcement for the 'right' behaviours.... perhaps.

I also think that with regards to punishment, it's often the case that *good, effective* trainers may disregard much of the everything else they're doing in conjunction, and give more credit than is due to the small part punishment plays in their effectiveness.
 
#24 ·
Ok. So how would you handle a horse that bites when touched anywhere near the girth area, or breast collar area? I've tried that one method where you keep touching them there until they stop and relax than you stop and reward them. Yea, I don't think it's working much lol. Also, she tends to stick out her neck and bite the air when you get on. I never ride with a saddle in the ring and she does this still, to EVERYONE and now it's just getting annoying. Sorry to steal the thread but i found it silly to start a new one lol
 
#28 ·
Ok. So how would you handle a horse that bites when touched anywhere near the girth area, .... Also, she tends to stick out her neck and bite the air when you get on.
This behaviour is generally a reaction to pain.... or the memory of previous pain. Therefore ruling out &/or treating any physical issues should be the first task, before considering the training side of things. Once the question of physical issues are out of the way, then you're right that desensitisation is the next step - get the horse used to & comfortable with you touching her there, leaning over her, etc.

Perhaps why it didn't seem to work for you is that you needed to do it more gradually, more approach & retreat, rather than a 'flooding' type style which may be too much for her. Or you didn't stick at what you were doing for long enough, or you didn't back off or reinforce the 'good' behaviour quickly or effectively enough, or perhaps the whole thing wasn't consistent enough for her, if she was also being handled without this consideration from others. If she's a school horse & you're the only one bothering to try to change her attitude, it'll be a long haul & will also not likely have much effect on her attitude/behaviour with others.

I expect this so I am ready and they run into anything I have in my hands, right in the chops.....
This does not make a horse head shy. they know why I am doing it, they assossiate my action with theirs.
Yup, I think about the most important bit of the above to keep in mind is "they run into" whatever unpleasant stimulus you choose to use. I think this is why *well timed & appropriate* punishment doesn't tend to lead to 'headshyness' or whatever, because effectively, *they* have done it to themselves, rather than perceiving that *you* have come at them in aggression. All the better if you can come across as having nothing to do with it, or at least not focussing on them when it happens.

In addition to trying to get to the bottom of the problem & address the *causes* rather than just the symptoms, which IME is vital, I would also be prepared to use punishment in this manner with horses such as the above 'girthy' horse. You might practice waving your elbow while you're at her girth, so if she 'gets in the way' *she'll* run into that pressure, or you could even do something like strap a spikey thing(metal curry comb or such) to your arm so that she runs into that.
 
#25 ·
Every single horse I start is a biter. You enter their stall and they come at you. They are all studs, all unhandled and they bite, bite bite.
I expect this so I am ready and they run into anything I have in my hands, right in the chops. At first all you need to do is lean on the door and they try biting, just as quick up comes the corner of the brush and hard in the chops. a hoof pick, anything, I ram into their mouth as hard as I can. I never use a whip, never smack them after the fact. Just quick and hard in the chops.
Now if I am girthing up and the horse swings his head I hit him in the chops with my elbow, never a fist, it hurt you but an elbow quickly in the chops.
This does not make a horse head shy. they know why I am doing it, they assossiate my action with theirs.
In every case I have almost stopped the biting in the week or two and definitely down the road. If he even looks at me like he wants to bite I speak harshly to him, maybe even poke a finger to his lips and dare him to try it.
None of my horses bite.
If she suddenly graps your sleeve and swift knee brought up into the rib cage works too. Step right into the horse, up with the knee and a sharp verbal NO works wonders, including kickers.

Never step back and kick with the toe, never. Never look for an object and then hit the horse. It must be immediate or forget it. As the teeth are going on the correction must also be coming
 
#27 ·
pechos - my husbands old standardbred ALWAYS goes to bite when girthing. in the beginning i used to tie him so that he couldnt reach his head around but this was no good as my hubby used him for pony club when he first started riding and often you would have to get off for something if not just to tighten the girth etc he needed to learn that he just couldnt do it. i dealt with it in a very similar way to riosdad. i knew it was coming so i would swing the elbow out and he would run straight into my elbow. the first few times i did this he would still keep coming back for me but he very quickly learnt that its less uncomfortable to not do it. he still snaps at the air and puts his ears back but he wont turn to bite anymore. he also used to do the same thing when you were trying to do up the front buckles on the rug. sadly some horses are just girthy.

have you considered pain as being the instigator of this behaviour? if its not pain it could still just be your horse is girthy. ive just bought my stallion home from the breakers and he is really girthy. annoys me no end cause i had him used to the girth being done up tight before he went away. i guess the trainer just heaved the girth up tight and quick and this has caused an issue. thing is its not just when the girth is being done up that he has an issue but it will continue through to being ridden. the only way i have found at this stage to combat this is to make the whole process quite slow at the moment. his girth is done up firstly tight enough that the saddle wont just slip off but not so tight that it annoys him. ill then walk him to the round yard and let him get his irritation out through a little lunge work. then i will tighten again and lunge again for a couple more minutes. once that is done i will make sure there is no skin pinching by pulling the front legs forward a tad and then hes usually right to go. this is a long process but he is objecting to it so i have to find a way to make it ok with him. he is getting better though and im hoping with time and patience this will become less of a problem for him.
 
#31 ·
don't remember who said that they thought i was barnes but i'm not she is a different person.... thanks for suggestions but loosie if you are going to talk crap on people you don't know i would ask you to not comment on here anymore... learning from experience on another post if people talk crap bout me or a family member i go off.. and i don't want that i want help
 
#33 ·
im sorry socks but this is a public forum where no one other than mods can make a request like that of a person and personally i cant find anywhere where loosie 'talked crap' about anyone. as has been established through our posts, she has merely pointed out what is the truth. you have asked for help and whether you see it or not, that helped is being provided. sometimes its a little hard to hear when someone you care about may be doing the wrong thing but just because its someone you love it doesnt mean they are incapable of not doing things 100% right. you also need to remember that everyone on this forum can only go on the information provided. i also said i believed in this instance the horse shouldnt be a stud for various reasons but no one went off at me?!?!?!

oh and this is not a place for anyone to 'go off' at anyone else. if something someone says gets under your skin either reply respectfully or ignore it. ive made somewhere around 5,000 posts now and in that time theres probably been at least 2,500 replies that have in some form kinda ticked me off but i made a choice to allow those ones to pass as if never said. getting upset and going off isnt the way to deal with it.

all that being said, i hope you family can work through this issue and stay safe around their stud
 
#32 ·
hahaha yes! im too old for arguments lol well im not old really but im old enough to have learnt there is a right and a wrong way to healthily debate a subject. i enjoy a good debate as much as the next person but abhore arguing. plus, i used to be a mod on here until time didnt permit me to keep it up and as a mod and adult it was my job to set an example for others on the forum.

when this all started i cringed when i would see a reply from you because i was expecting to be growled at or have a cyber finger waved at me lol i also appreciate the way in which you have handled this discussion.

i understand what you are saying and completely agree that at the end of it all we probably have basically the same opinions just with a few amendments ;)
 
#35 ·
Personally I would geld the stallion(unless he has amazing qualities that you just cannot find in another stallion already out there, which I doubt) and pop him a few times. Chopper has only ever attempted to bite me once. He promptly got popped with the back of my hand on the nose. He hasn't tried it since then, 3 years ago.
 
#36 ·
This is directed to both barns and to socks. I would strongly suggest that you learn the difference between debate, suggestions, and difference of opinions vs. insults and rudeness. You are exhibiting a poor attitude and that is not a healthy position to take on any forum.

No one was rude to you but only offered suggestions. This thread has apparently run it's course.
 
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