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Rearing?!? Circus?!?

This is a discussion on Rearing?!? Circus?!? within the Horse Training forums, part of the Training Horses category
  • Scared horse rearing
  • Teach the levade

 
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    08-26-2009, 05:09 PM
  #31
Showing
Zab, here is a picture of your horse rearing:

Here's why your rear is dangerous:
This horse is tense. He is scared. He is rearing because he's confused, you can see that in his posture. His back legs are unsteady and if he were to go just a little higher, even just a couple degrees, he could lose his balance or slip on the wet grass. He is not calm. He is not responding out of love. He is responding out of fear and confusion and is not balanced. This horse has thrown himself upwards and you can see the angle in his back. This horse is using its front legs to balance.

This horse is in Levade, or how you want your horse to rear, as stated in other posts:

Look at how low he is to the ground. This is balance. This is the horse sitting on his hindquarters and tucking his front legs up. He is not trying to balance with his front legs, they are just simply out of the way. Now look at his back; it's almost level. Look at the horse's head and neck - not thrown upwards, but rather in frame. He is balanced. You could stick a sheet of ice under this horse and I doubt he'd falter. Ok, that's an exaggeration, but he is BALANCED.

It takes upwards of a decade or more to teach the levade, and for good reason - it is HARD. Most horses NEVER reach this point, even when they're bred to do this stuff.

Okey doke, I think I've said all I can in this thread. Unless someone has a specific question to me, I think I'm done.
     
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    08-27-2009, 08:38 PM
  #32
Zab
Yearling
And you think that one day the levade horse just did a perfect levade? The picture you found of Crow was very old when he firslt learnt. No, it wasn't perfect balance as I've said already there, but it's not as bad as you say either. He'sa not rearing of feear or stress, but he is throwing himself to get up. And I'm not saying that that's supposed to be a levade either.

Besides, you just before this said that it's dangerous because the horse will rear without the cue nd so on as soon as it want to. Why you bring in Croq in this, when I've already stated that I'm not teaching him rearing from saddle since we have more things to learn first, and never said his ground rearing was any kind of levade, I dunno.

But I suppose you're right *smirk* despite all horses I have met who rears, by trick or by upper level dressage, and that they've (including my horse) never has reared without cue, any horse who's taught it will go lunatic and kill their riders. Yeah, exactly..
     
    08-27-2009, 09:43 PM
  #33
Showing
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zab    
And you think that one day the levade horse just did a perfect levade? The picture you found of Crow was very old when he firslt learnt. No, it wasn't perfect balance as I've said already there, but it's not as bad as you say either. He'sa not rearing of feear or stress, but he is throwing himself to get up. And I'm not saying that that's supposed to be a levade either.

Besides, you just before this said that it's dangerous because the horse will rear without the cue nd so on as soon as it want to. Why you bring in Croq in this, when I've already stated that I'm not teaching him rearing from saddle since we have more things to learn first, and never said his ground rearing was any kind of levade, I dunno.

But I suppose you're right *smirk* despite all horses I have met who rears, by trick or by upper level dressage, and that they've (including my horse) never has reared without cue, any horse who's taught it will go lunatic and kill their riders. Yeah, exactly..
You said in your last post he HAS reared without cue, out of frustration. More than once. How is that not dangerous?

Quote:
He has however reared as a protest/question during riding ... two times



Please leave the snark at the door. If you want to talk facts, let me know.

I've seen many rearers. Most never get completely re-trained. Many hurt their riders, the riders get scared and send their horses to the knackers. Or they get sent to the knackers later because nobody wants to deal with a rearer.

In my personal opinion, teaching a horse to rear is not in the horse's or rider's best interest.
Rearing can very easily get out of hand, even with the best of riders. Rearing can become habitual, and the horse can learn that rearing means they get out of work.
Rearing is a dangerous thing to play around with. If you mess up, you mess up bad; there is very little room for error, which is why it's such a big deal.

I'm done here, there is nothing more I can say that hasn't already been said.

You yourself proved my theory right; the horse can and will introduce rearing into riding as an avoidance mechanism.
     
    08-27-2009, 09:55 PM
  #34
Zab
Yearling
**** my honesty. He did NOT rear any of those two times because of that training. He woud have reared that times anyway. And we didn't really do anything but not encourage it when it happened and it has never happened after that. It was one of his first times with a rider, lots of horses do rear slightly when that happens.

Also, as you've already pointed out, he wasn't taught it 'after the book'' so it proves nothing even if he had been a rearing monster. A horse tauht rearing the crrect way will not rear without cue.
     
    08-27-2009, 10:35 PM
  #35
Trained
Quote:
A horse tauht rearing the crrect way will not rear without cue.
Using your examples... A horse taught to stop the correct way will NEVER ignore this cue, even if amongst loose horses running wild, or something spooks it from behind, so on and so forth.

A horse taught the right way not to bite will never bite, even when handfed treats to extremes, or in pain when being saddled.

Wish I knew that a long time ago :]
     
    08-29-2009, 04:27 PM
  #36
Zab
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by wild_spot    
Using your examples... A horse taught to stop the correct way will NEVER ignore this cue, even if amongst loose horses running wild, or something spooks it from behind, so on and so forth.

A horse taught the right way not to bite will never bite, even when handfed treats to extremes, or in pain when being saddled.

Wish I knew that a long time ago :]
That's exatly what I'm talking about. It's not ''teach or don't teach'' but 'teach it the right or wrong way'' that matters.
     
    08-29-2009, 05:53 PM
  #37
Foal
Well, yes and no. I've seen horses that were trained to do rearing, or bowing and they do these things without being asked, simply because those things are now a way to find a release of pressure....it's follows the same idea of...the horse has 6 directions to give you, to find the right one for a release of pressure....left, right, forward, back, up or down.

Normally, we want to quell the up option, but if you teach the horse to rear, despite your best intentions....he might choose that as an option when you're asking for something else.....of course, depending on how your timing and relationship is with that particular horse (how well you know him)....you can stop it before it "really" happens, you know?
     
    08-29-2009, 05:55 PM
  #38
Trained
^ Sorry, I don't beleive it. I've never seen a single horse listen to a stop cue every single time no matter what the situation.

Same with my other examples. When I see it with my own eyes, i'll beleive it, but I have NEVER seen a case where that has been true.
     
    08-29-2009, 08:48 PM
  #39
Super Moderator
Calamaty is kind of right. I can "feel" the rear before it comes. When I know it's coming I have a few options that over the years I have figured out that work, knowing Pistols mood helps me to decide what my options are. For instance I can kick him forward (that usually gets me a huge forward leap) but it moves him forward, if he's moving forward, he can't rear. I can also jam my knuckle into his spine just above the withers. That keeps his rear low (like maybe 12 inches off the ground). I can also yank his reign to the right or left, knocking him off balance and forcing him to plant his feet for an instant. But as far as a "No" que. That's non-existent.....
     

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