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Rearing problem.....

6K views 23 replies 9 participants last post by  ktmott 
#1 ·
My 9 year old gelding has a sweet desposition, very sweet, loves everybody. But when he's under saddle and gets an idea in his head that he doesn't want to do, if I fight him on it, he pops up; maybe 4-5 inches off the ground. I know if he continues to do this and gets away w/ it, his behavior will get worse. He does this on the longe line too. When I get him to change directions on the line, he will rear up with me.

How do I get him to stop rearing while he's under me?
How do I get him to stop rearing while I'm longeing him?
How can I teach him this is unacceptable?

Thanks,

Missi
 
#2 ·
I can tell you from my own bad expirience
that beating and slashing
will be the last thing you need. First of all, if you want him not to rear under saddle with you in it, you must tech him not to rear on the ground. I know how hard it is, and if you have stallion it is a real big problem. Your horse probably thinks that with rearing he will fix all his problems, and that's why he is doin' it all the time if someting is not on his wish. I don't want to be philosophyst who will now share his philosophy about natural....But you must first understand why is your horse doin' that, and when you kow that you can start with fixing the problem. I don't know did you ever heard about some books like natural horsemanship, or one good is; A good horse is never a bad colour. This books had helped me a lot in working with horses.
 
#3 ·
First make sure the horse is sound and is not injured or sore in his back, feet, legs, mouth etc. If he is ok then keep reading

While lunging a horse, it can some times get testy and rear defiantly, if it caused you to stop lunging it, then it learn that if it wanted to stop working all it had to do is rear.
Now a horse is strong and if it decides to rear up, you cannot stop it, so then let it rear up, then keep it moving, it takes a lot of energy for a horse to rear and soon enough it will figure, "why am I doing all this extra work" and will stop rearing.

When riding a horse some people unknowingly urge the horse forward and at the same time do not give him, his head, they instead keep a tight rein. So that the only place for the horse to go is up.

If this are not the cause and it is just plain disrespect, then go back to your ground traing first, when you lunge him and he rears, step towards his drive line and pressure him on his way by tapping your training pole on the ground, or lunge whip towards his hind quarters. He will eventually stop rearing.

When riding make sure you give him enough rein when you ride, if he begins to rear in defience then dis-engage his hindquarters, turning him around and then head the direction YOU want to go, do this each time he rears and two things will happen. FIrst thing that will happen is that you will remove his power from him by bending him around, dis-engaging his hind quarters. A horse cannot rear when his hind-quarters are dis-enegaged.
Second thing that will happen is that he will stop rearing because he will learn the right answer is moving his feet forward and the wrong answer is rearing, it does not give him what he wants and it is a lot of work.
Remember dis-enegaging the hind quarters removes the horses power. And while you are at it, practice some one rein stops.
Keep you directing rein hand low so you do not pull up on his head as you turn it around.

Good Luck and ride safe
 
#4 ·
it takes a lot of energy for a horse to rear and soon enough it will figure, "why am I doing all this extra work" and will stop rearing.
Ok, that answered another question of mind. I wasn't sure if I was doing the right thing about keeping him moving. I am new to this, but it makes total sense that if I stopped him when he reared than he got what he wanted.

step towards his drive line and pressure him on his way by tapping your training pole on the ground, or lunge whip towards his hind quarters. He will eventually stop rearing
This is exactly what I needed to hear. I worked with him in the round pen about 2 hours today. I know consistency is the key to training and getting him to understand what I want him to do. The one rein stop though is something I definiately have to work on. He is 9 years old and from what I can tell while he's under me, he has never given a rider his head. I have tried tying a bungee cord to the back of the saddle to his shank, he did a few circles, then stopped and mostly fought w/ the shank, trying to get his tongue over the bit. I let my step daughter ride him out of the round pen today, just in the field. He did Ok w/ her but he needs much improvement. He always tries to go the way HE wants to go and she's constantly fighting with him. He didn't rear w/ her though, but once I got on him, about 3 minutes he popped up alittle, but now that I think about it, I may have had a tight hold on the reins. I'll keep that in mind the next time I'm on him. My main concern right now is him learning the one rein stop and the rearing thing. I need about 4 hours and a 60 degree day so I can work w/ him until he gets it. He wants to go back to the barn ALL the time, which I know is normal. I need to come up with some lessons for him to do while he's in or at the barn so he will associate the barn w/ work. Any suggestions?

My barn area is not very big, so there is much I could do but any suggestions may help....

Thanks, Missi
 
#6 ·
Work outs near the barn......

Well let's start where the horse is at, in the round pen. If are not using a lunge line, then start using one to get him accustomed to it. Make sure he is turning on command after a lap or two, turn him around and do it again and again and again. They cut the circle in half, lunge him back and forth on one side of the circle so that he is moving back and forth in that half circle, then do the same on the other side, that way you are assured he will move, stop and turn using both sides of his brain.
When he is accustomed to that, and just as impostantly you are accustomed to it. Move outside of the round pen and do the same procedure. When you are both proficient outside the round pen, then take him near his stable/barn and work him back and forth between you and the barn doing quarter to half circle lunges, always making him pass between you and the barn, slowly and I mean slowy reduce the distance between you and the barn, the part will naturally lead to his next lesson, but for now work him back and forth by the barn, never let him rest between you and the barn, but only when you lead him out away from the barn area. Or at least with him on the outside of the circle and you between him and the barn. I have seen the pictures of your horses and they are beautiful horses. However this one is a little barn sour and disrepectful. Remember, lungeing for respect is NOT running your horse around in circle to make him tired, it is gaining control and respect of the horse, by making him move his feet and making him stop his feet, then making him turn and move his feet again. If you can make a horse move his feet in a herd situation, you will be the dominate personality in the herd.
So instead of lungeing him for 2 hours, lunge him for 45 minutes, always end on a good note and when you decide he has done well enough to end.
With the remaining hour start working on his lateral flextion, stand first on his left side between his withers and hindquarters, pull on the lead line, pulling his head towards you, as soon as his head turns towards you immediately slacken the lead line to give him the release he will be looking for, then do it again and again until you can stand at his hindquarters and with very little pressure bend his head towards you so his nose would touch the stirrups on you saddle if it were on him. Now remember everything you do on one side of the horse you must do on the otherside, Now be patient, if you only get his head back about half way to what would be the stirrup position, that is ok for the initial lesson, but do that on both sides, you will find greater resistance on one side. Usually the side you have spent less time on.
Also note this, if you have not been working on the horses lateral flextion, then when you pull back on the lead line he will probably turn his whole body around to find the release from the pressure, keeping the hand nearest his body on his body, move with him until he stops moving, keeping the tension on the lead line, when he stops and turns his head back to you (which means he had found the right answer) then quickly release the tension on the line, showing him if he want the release, he must turn his head to get it. Do not worry about vertical flextion, lateral flextion is truly the key component to getting vertical flextion.
Another thing you must do is to convince him you can get him to move his feet, take the lead line and walk towards his hindquarters, swinging it around in a vertical circle nearest his hind end. If he does not disengage the hindquarters and move them away from you, then spank him on the hindquarters as you walk to them, he will move them. Now spanking is hindquarters with a soft cotton rope is not beating the horse, it is used to get his attention and soon enough when you raise the lead liine towards his hind quarters he will automatically dis engage them and turn them away from you. When a horse shows you his hindquarters when you approach them, not always but usually it is a sign of disrepect. You will want to teach the horse repect by making him move, stop and turn his feet. If you can control the feet if a horse you can control the horse. This is herd behavior... Watch a herd sometime, see the dominate horse back up to another horse pinning it's ears back and suggesting, if you do not move, I am going to kick you, if the horse moves he is submiting to the dominate horse and accepting his lower ank among the herd. If he does not move he will be kicked until he moves or fights back. So if one horse can control the feet of another horse then that horse who is in control is the domiate horse and is to be respected. You will become the dominate horse by controlling your horses feet.
Use only the necessary amount of pressure needed to accomplish each task, to much pressure will help confuse the horse hindering it's ability to find the right answer. When it finds the right answer release the pressure immediately.
Needless to say be loving him by rubbing you hands all over his body at each rest time and at each time you release the pressure.
One more thing, so I know you understand about appropriate pressure. When I train a horse to back up, I first say BACK and repeating it over and over again, if he does not back up, I add wiggling the lead line as I say back, this adds more pressure, if he does not back up still, I add swinging my training pole back and forth as well as wiggling the lead line and saying back, and so on and so on, it does not take long for the horse to start going back on the minimal pressure of saying BACK. One more thing, one of the ultimate things a horse can do showing repect is to back up when you tell him too. So add this exercise to your list of training regime.

Good Luck
 
#7 ·
Oh and before I forget, go get a smooth snaffle bit to train him in, Shank bits have a function but will mask problems, use the snaffle and teach him control in a more natural way. Get lateral flextion and you will be more easily be able to use the one rein stops. Do all this on the gound before you begin to do this on his back.
 
#8 ·
Thank you so much. I will definitely use your lesson the next time I'm in the round pen w/ Charlie. I totally see Charlie's disrespect towards us.

My bay isn't 100% but I see I need to focus on Charlie's training before he gets worse. Charlie is my 12 year olds and I do not want his behavior getting worse and potentially hurting her.

if you have not been working on the horses lateral flextion, then when you pull back on the lead line he will probably turn his whole body around to find the release from the pressure,
This is exactly what Charlie does. While I was in the round pen yesterday, I was wondering how to get him to stop moving his whole body. I hope I can do this right.

Thanks again....Missi
 
#9 ·
WLD - Another thing, I was re-reading your post about "BACKING" the horse. Charlie does better w/ backing than he does anything else. When I tell him back, most of the time, he'll back. Now, I may have to slap his chest w/ my hand, but he'll back a few steps. He definiately doesn't respect my space. When I lunge him and when I whoa him, he will stop but he is still standing sideways. He won't turn to face me everytime. Of course, that's when I do not have the lunge line on him? With the lunge line on him, the minute I say Whoa, he'll stop but will then slowly proceed towards me in the middle of the round pen? Is this Ok?

Sorry for all the questions, again, I am new to this and learning all that I can so my horses can be all that they can be for me... (sounds like the army, huh?).. ha ha !!
:D


Missi
 
#10 ·
Try getting him to back up without touching him. I usually try not to slap the horse so it does not associate my hands with scary things. I will how every do what ever it takes to keep him from crowding my space with his head, usually I lift my hand or elbow and they back off.

I do not let my horses come into me during lunging. I make them stop, making sure they are paying attention to me and then I walk up to them. I only allow them to come into me when I initiate it.
and rarely during lunging for respect.

Something else you should be doing, and you may be already doing this is making sure your horse is de-sensitized to your tools. When I stop the horse and approach him, I rub his head with the rope in my hand, I also rub my training pole around all of his body and legs, head etc.

Now different people have different criteria for what they want their horse to do and not do.
For me a horse is a 1100 lb animal that can step on me, bump me, etc for many reasons, like getting frightened of something, can possibly be dangerous. If I maintain space between us, I usually have time to react. A frightened horse can move very quickly. So always watch him as you talk to him. I am also always rubbing every part of their bodywith my hands, they need to know that we can touch them anywhere and it is not going to hurt them. I also lightly message their spine and shoulders, hindquarters, legs chest after a work out to see if their is any sensitive spots I need to know about.

When a horse appoaches me during a stop break during lunging I tell them "back" and point straight at them, if they are unsure of what I am saying I will wiggle the rope till they take a few steps back.
Then I pause a minute and walk up to them speaking to them and rub them with my hand and the rope and pole.

The question you need to ask is "is the horse paying attention to you" when he stops or is he looking around, if he is bored you need to take the necessary steps to keep his mind in the game. For me, I like both eyes on me during the break. So I know I have his attention.
I hope this answers you question Good Luck and have Fun!
 
#11 ·
I am so greatful for your replies.

Something else you should be doing, and you may be already doing this is making sure your horse is de-sensitized to your tools. When I stop the horse and approach him, I rub his head with the rope in my hand, I also rub my training pole around all of his body and legs, head etc
Yes, I do de-sensitize him. This is something I was taught by a friend of mind. I use my lead rope, lunge line, training pole, etc. (whatever I have in my hand) and rub all over him. I throw the rope behind him, around him, over his eyes, head and ears to get him used to things around him.

I also lightly message their spine and shoulders, hindquarters, legs chest after a work out to see if their is any sensitive spots I need to know about.
I will start doing this.

When a horse appoaches me during a stop break during lunging I tell them "back" and point straight at them, if they are unsure of what I am saying I will wiggle the rope till they take a few steps back.
Then I pause a minute and walk up to them speaking to them and rub them with my hand and the rope and pole.
I will definately use this procedure when he starts walking towards me when I whoa him on the lunge line. Again, thanks so much.

I am reading John Lyons (The making of a perfect trail horse) in my spare time. Right now, I work 5 days a week, but after the first of the year, I will be back to my normal 4 days a week w/ Wednesday's off. I am really excited to get outside on those Wednesday's, in the roundpen w/ my horses. Today, it's raining but the weekend is almost going to reach 60 degrees where I live(Western Ky). So I'm hoping Sat & Sun I will be able to work with my horses and use your techniques in the roundpen.

Last night when I was taking hay to the barn, Charlie was again crowding my space. Everytime I tried to go towards the barn w/ the hay, he would move in front of me and block my path. Naturally, I moved out of the way, then remembered "Charlie just made ME move MY feet." I then stood still & kicked at him with my right leg, not touching him. Charlie moved out of my way & let me pass. I then walked passed him. I hope that was Ok. I was carrying an arm full of hay and couldn't set it down. So I used my only other source.

Missi

I'll update you on my progress within the next few weeks.


[/quote]
 
#13 ·
I am no trainer also, but after seeking advice for Annie when she reared, bucked and charged on the lunge, this is what i was told:

If she starts bucking and rearing when you are lunging, shorten the rope and kind of snap like you would do with a whip. If you take control they will know it.

As for your horse bucking and rearing on the lunge. Get yourself in a good position when she goes to buck - stand about at her hip and maybe 3 feet away from her... and pull her head in, this should stop her. If she goes to rear up on you go back to her hip again and DRIVE her forward with your voice/lead/whip - whatever it takes... then keep her moving. If she goes to buck, stop her again... just keep going until she'll go once around nicely, then stop. By allowing her to get away with this behavior and tip-toeing around her you are telling her SHE is the boss of the situation, and you can't have that.

Have a lunging whip with you and ask him for the canter if you think he's going to do it again, be prepared..snap the whip and use that mommy tone voice..because you should be very angry with him..so tell him that ..yell "NO! GET GOING!" and snap the whip and just force him to keep going..if he doesn't want to listen to that then you can slow him down a little and get him to a complete stop to calm him..BUT you shouldn't give up..if you know he doesn't like to do that then you have to keep pushing until he does it without acting up or he'll learn that you're scared of that and he won'tstop..also..is that his bad side?..because I know some horses don't like to lunge on their bad side becuase it's uncomfortable for them..s oyuo might need to work him slower on that side if it is.

I hope this might help you a little. Good Luck!
 
#16 ·
Missi said:
Kristy, no I haven't tested for soundness? How would I go about doing this?
Missi,

I believe the best thing to do would be to call a vet to do a soundness/lameness check. It's similar to a pre-purchase exam that exams all areas of the horse for any signs of pain. Lameness or being unsound could easily be the source of all your problems. If you have someone very experienced and familiar with horses, ask them to evaluate your horse if you do not wish to call your vet. It is very important to know your horse is sound and not in pain before you continue on assuming that it's a behavior problem. Let us know how things go.
 
#17 ·
This weekend was successful. It wasn't 100% but I am making progress.

Charlie finally learned to do his lateral flexions. He's still learning but not got it down like Chance does. (As soon as I get in the saddle on my bay, he automatically flexes his head to my left boot. I have to put light pressure on him to flex his head to my right boot because the right side is his bad side. But he does both sides the moment I get on him) CHarlie finally turned his neck instead of his entire body when I put light pressure on either rein. It took us awhile but he finally figured it out. Now the barnsour problem, is still a problem. I see I will have to really work with him on this. This isn't just going to take 30 minutes to fix. I worked w/ him Sat & Sun. He just doesn't want to go away from the barn. I have to fight him each & every time. He doesn't want to go the way I point him. Today, I walked him up to the barn; when I tried to turn him, of course he fought me on it. I finally got him away from it and walked back to the barn. Got off of him and worked him in a small circle for 10 minutes, got back on him and walked away (again with some fighting) from the barn (to the other end of my field), stopped him and just stood there with him while I was still under saddle. I made sure he was turned away from the barn. My thinking was that he'd figure out if he would just go the way I ask, he could rest and I'd leave him alone. We did this a few times. I didn't see any improvement in him but like I said this is going to take some time. I am proud I made progress w/ the lateral flexion though. Oh... earlier today when I was on Charlie, I got him to flex to the right, he then opened his mouth as if trying to bit my foot. How can I prevent him from doing this? He popped up on me just once the entire weekend. It was today when he was ****** cuz I was trying to get him away from the barn. He didn't rear on the lunge line either. I guess the biggest problem w/ Charlie is this barn sour thing.

Chance did really well in the round pen today. I rode him out in the field. He acted up a little but nothing I couldn't handle. I rode him back to the round pen and then got off him.

I wish I could be confident enough in myself and either one of these horses to take off one day by myself. I guess I can make that a goal for this next summer.

MIssi
 
#18 ·
Missi,
Barnsour is something I've seen horses sold over. It is a difficult thing to overcome mainly because of how much time it takes to get over it. When my horse was initially getting barnsour, I made being near the barn uncomfortable. We use to leave the barn, go to the arena up the hill, work, go immediately inside, untack and either be turned out or given a treat in the stall. Why wouldn't he be barnsour? I then began working him in the arena very close to my barn. Initially, when I worked him near the barn, he was very difficult to maintain. It took patience and not backing down in order for him to finally give up his battle. The important thing with my horse in that situation was to never give in to his fits. This would only set us back and prove to him bad behavior is rewarding. I also ended on good notes. If he did something I asked, even if it were small, the session was over. If he was exceptionally good, the session ended quickly. He slowly began to understand that going near the barn did not necessarily mean our session was over.
I then took him away from the barn to graze on a lead line without doing any work. After repetition, he began to understand going away from the barn meant relaxation and no working.
In the beginning it was very difficult coming back to the barn. He was very unsteady and I knew that I was in a dangerous situation. I tried to end the session early and safely, without giving in. We did a lot of standing, walking forward and if his tempo increased, I turned sharply and made him walk back to his original spot. Repeat. If he began pacing, prancing or moving to the side, I turned him in a sharp circle to get him moving forward but not moving everywhere. Eventually, he would stop turning after realizing I was not asking him to move forward. We then began the process again. I wanted a slow and paced walk before we were to the gate, rather then rushing forward and acting out. Since this was a dangerous situation with his bad behavior, I didn't ride again in that area until I allowed him to graze there, trying to ease the bad experience. When we were done grazing, we walked back to the barn. If he rushed or ran over me, I stopped, backed and then went forward. He soon began to listen. Later when I rode in this area, he was more relaxed and responding.
When going back, I took him past the barn door several times and ocassionally went inside a different way. Rather then putting him away or turning him out immediately, I put him in the cross ties, took off his tack and allowed him to stand there. I then did things I needed to do while he was waiting. I normally clean his stall, clean up and put away tack. After about 30 to 45 minute of waiting, he is then turned out or put in a stall. I stopped giving him treats and substituted a scratch on the neck. Treats contributed to him rushing back to the barn.
I now have a well mannered horse who does not rush me. I still do the things listed, such as working in different places and relaxing in different places. It helps maintain his patience. It took time and a lot of patience and understanding (as well as anger management). Remember to reward for the small things! I believe that a successful session does not have to be perfect bahavior but more so effort from the horse and willingness to do as commanded.

Have someone with you or near by when dealing with this problem! Update us further!
 
#19 ·
1. Get a chiropractic.
2. Get a performance dental.
3. Get out of the round pen.
4. Get your saddle blankets wet.

If these fail, get a trainer.

1. Nine times out of ten, rearing is either chiro or dental or a combination. It may seem like the horse is balking because it;s being stubborn. It may be stubborn cause it hurts.

2. Too many people spend way too much time in the round pen. I trained a big 16 hand quarter horse last summer that the people had just roundpenned to death. The hores would flat not move out under saddle in a round pen without rearing. The minute I got him out of the round pen and gave him somewhere to go, he was an awesome horse.

3. The best training tool in existance is wet saddle blankets. I've heard it a thousand times, and said it at least as many. Ray Hunt has said it...."When all else fails, ride your horse."

4. If you are out of your league, admit it before you get crippled or killed, and bring the horse to a trainer.
 
#20 ·
Hi Missi,

As far as rearing under saddle goes have you tried the good old egg trick?? A very English method but worked every time for me!!!

lol now you have to be careful not to make a mess in your pocket and you do need a certain amount of confidence but heres what you do..........

......next time you are schooling or taking him out take a few eggs with you.
The next time he rears keep one hand on both reigns and take an egg out of your pocket. Then without force crack the egg over the horses head (when the horses front legs are off the floor - it is too late once the front hooves have reconnected with the ground) The idea is not to cause the horse pain but to make the horse think it has banged his head on something due to his behaviour in rearing.

I dont know if this will work for you but it has never failed for me!!

xxx
 
#21 ·
take an egg out of your pocket. Then without force crack the egg over the horses head (when the horses front legs are off the floor - it is too late once the front hooves have reconnected with the ground
)

I have not heard of this but I will definiately try it the next time it's warm enough to ride. Call me a wuss but here in Ky, it's 25 degrees. My 13 yo daughter is in the round pend working w/ Charlie right now. Where am I? I'm in the house, typing on the computer, where it's warm.


In one of my other posts I mentioned Charlie getting into my building where we kept their feed. Since that incident the feed is in our house. At this building is where Charlie & I would have problems with him rearing. He wud place his head in the middle of the building. Almost like he was in time-out sticking his nose in the corner. It was almost comical if it wasn't so aggravating. This is where the rearing wud start. It never wasn't a "hi-ho silver rear" but maybe 3-4" popping up off the ground, just letting me know he didn't want to leave the security of the building.

Now that I've moved the feed elsewhere, I wonder if I will have the same problem the next time I'm under saddle?


Thanks...Missi
 
#23 ·
Anxious is the right word. IMO (and only my own personal opinion I might add) anxious is not what you want to achieve. If anything it could make things worse. I'd be darn sure first that the rearing wasn't due to some type of soundess issue first before trying anything else. And I agree with the round pen point. Round pens are supposed to be used as a tool, but use it too much and it becomes a crutch.
 
#24 ·
horse rearing

i definatlely think you should get the horses back checked and everything but seriously try hiting him on the head, even if i is due to pain if he rears he needs to be deciplined in some way because you dont want to teach him that he is allowed to get away with it, it wont hurt him it will just make him think twice about rearing next time as he wont wont a smack on the head
 
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