Resisent Free Trained Horses, HELP ME?! - Page 7 - The Horse Forum
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post #61 of 65 Old 07-15-2009, 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by RiosDad View Post
I just fix the problem and clamping down immediately fixes the problem. I am not going to ask if he is sore if he cow kicks me. I am not going to ask if he has a problem standing still in cross ties?? He is jsut going to do it and he will be alot happier doing it my way.
Again clamping down if anything brings an animal closer.
I agree that it *can* sometimes 'fix' the problem, but depending on the horse, the problem, your relationship with them & how you do the 'clamping', it can & does often make matters 100 times worse. It is generally only a short term 'fix', to punish a horse for a behaviour, especially if you don't care about addressing the causes & being considerate of the animal. It can also lead to the horse not doing that particular behaviour again, but you've only treated the symptom, so the 'disease' will manifest in other ways, possibly more problematic in the future. Curious that you believe you're making the animal happier by punishing it. As for bringing them closer, I suspect that has everything to do with everything else you do with the animal - it doesn't come about because of the punishment.
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post #62 of 65 Old 07-15-2009, 09:54 PM
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again agree to disagree about what works. I am a person who would much rather not to a slap to my horse if at all costs but at the same time I realize horses do react naturally to some type of dominance. I don't think that chronic behavioral issues can be fixed with dominance......but I do think a properly timed snap at a horse can teach them a lesson
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post #63 of 65 Old 07-16-2009, 12:04 AM
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Originally Posted by RiosDad View Post
The elbow works great. I am breaking new horses, basically wild horses and they like to bite and kick.
That's interesting. I'm here in Oz & have started quite a few untouched horses - as in brumbies or station horses that have been rounded up & yarded - the only human experiences they've known. I've found them to be generally much easier & less likely to show any defensive aggression than many horses that have 'known' people prior to 'training'. But I don't use confrontational methods either.

I'm also a hoof care practitioner & I agree that you shouldn't have to be taking the time to train a horse when you're just being paid to trim. However, while punishment may be a 'quick fix', it's rarely a long term one. That's why I ask new clients whether their horse is well behaved & advise people that if they wish, I'm happy to spend some time with a horse who is not, but I won't just come & force the horse into something for the sake of getting the job done - after all, I hope my clients will use me more than once & I want the horse to be happy to see me next time.
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post #64 of 65 Old 07-16-2009, 12:45 AM
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Originally Posted by goldilockz View Post
28 horses and not one will have a butthead day and try to lash out once?

RiosDad: Yeah, I'm kind of a dummy sometimes
I would say that would have to depend on the behaviour of the handler at the time. Eg. Someone told of a horse that didn't like a vet palpitating his inner thigh. Well I too would lash out if some strange man came & assumed he could do that to me, at least without asking permission first! And I'm sorry, but you might be able to force or frighten me into it the first time, but I'd do all I could to avoid it happening again.... & I'm human, supposedly able to think rationally about these things.
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post #65 of 65 Old 07-16-2009, 01:01 AM
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Originally Posted by lovemyponies View Post
again agree to disagree about what works. I am a person who would much rather not to a slap to my horse if at all costs but at the same time I realize horses do react naturally to some type of dominance. I don't think that chronic behavioral issues can be fixed with dominance......but I do think a properly timed snap at a horse can teach them a lesson
Hi, after reading the above, not knowing who it's directed at, I thought I'd explain my views about punishment... I have a background in behavioural psychology/training. I personally think that punishment (positive and negative) are valuable 'tools' to have in your bag of tricks. BUT punishment, especially the positive variety generally comes with many undesirable 'side effects', some of which I've described.

I definitely think it has it's place(especially in dangerous, emergency type situations), but a rather small, generally inefficient one compared to other methods of behaviour modification, and I think it's vital to understand the principles behind it, and behind the behaviours our animals exhibit, so that we can make the best judgements about when/where/why to use punishment & when it's best avoided.
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