Resistance to turn. Green horse - The Horse Forum
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post #1 of 8 Old 09-06-2013, 01:29 AM Thread Starter
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Resistance to turn. Green horse

So Ella's become a bit resistant in her turns she's not had much work the last few months but starting to get back into it.
I haven't mouthed her yet so we're in a halter

We had an incident a couple oif months ago where I took the chance and when she resisted I applied more and more pressure then gave the rope a good tug. Ended up on my arse she threw in a small rear and I wasn't ready. Oops.

So have brought her right back to basics. From confidently trotting around over poles and small jumps to the walk.

Any strategies for fixing this issue?

She's also incredibly resistant to hq yeilds on board.

Her flexion at a stand still is good.
Although I have been standing on this block while she thinks for 15 mins now. Maybe she's having an epiphany?
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post #2 of 8 Old 09-06-2013, 01:42 AM
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Normal. You'll turn her probably thousands of times in her life before she's really consistently soft and responsive about it. Sometimes I think we tend to underestimate just how long these things take. I know I did.

Couple of good ones:

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post #3 of 8 Old 09-06-2013, 04:06 AM Thread Starter
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Ian you just made my day in 1 word. Normal.
I'll have a look at the videos after work.

Today I focused on walking a shape not really square or circle in the top third of the arena. In the same direction for what felt like 3 hours but was really 20 mins. Not changing directions just turn turn turn and turn.

Had a few temper tantrums to begin with, ears pin tail swish even a snap at my boot. But at some point they stopped and by the end had lovely soft turns so today that worked.

Amazing how different she was when I practiced what I tell my own students and looked as I turned.
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post #4 of 8 Old 09-06-2013, 04:09 AM Thread Starter
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post #5 of 8 Old 11-10-2013, 09:17 PM Thread Starter
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Rehashing my old post rates than re-explaining.

Ella had a come months off whilst I got uni out of the way and have started back about 3 weeks ago.

She's turning off one finger but still with resistance, We also encountered her deciding she was going to try bite my leg during lateral flexing.

Fixed the biting by jumping off and chasing her around in a very quick hq yield making it rather unpleasant. Before trotting strait over to the mounting block and getting on and moving again.

I'm not quick enough to smack her nose away in time effectively enough. This is a technique I'd seen used when the rider didn't want to deal with pure misbehaviour onboard so figured I'd give it a go,

As I said she's turning off a single finger but there is still resistance. Particularly asking for a smaller turn.

I had a friend with a similar issue and she found the idea of a side pull worked better than the central knotted rope halter,

Shes mostly mouthed so I was thinking of just biting the bullet and using her bridle.
There's no point me spending on a side pull for only a months use.

What do you all think.
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post #6 of 8 Old 11-10-2013, 09:32 PM
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There a several different ways for a horse to be resistant in a turn- for example a horse may give his head but resistant the turn by bowing out through the shoulder. A horse that will fight you in his face usually translates to a body part behind it. You need to find out where in his body he is truly resistant at. Sometimes going on a true straight line or backing is pretty telling for where the resistance is.
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post #7 of 8 Old 11-11-2013, 11:11 AM
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There is more to 'turning' than just changing direction! It is a lot more complicated than that if you want to teach a horse to turn correctly and not just change directions of travel.

First, ALL of the horse has to be TRYING to turn. RESISTANCE is what is the actual problem and it can be manifested in many ways. You want the horse to TRY to turn. This means that his entire body, from nose to tail must be TRYING to turn. Every horse must be taught to 'follow its nose'. A horse MUST follow its shoulder, but it has to be TAUGHT that its shoulder must follow its nose. This is usually referred to as 'being between the reins and between the rider's legs'. That just means that the horse is not 'pulling' or 'pushing' against either rein or either leg. It means that the horse is happy staying right where the rider want it to. This is a horse showing NO RESISTANCE!

Every horse has 5 body parts. Head, neck, shoulders, ribs and hips. They must all be taught to let you control all 5 of these parts 'without resistance' if you want them to turn correctly.

1) Head -- The head is the easiest part to control. Teaching lateral flexion and teaching a horse to bring its head around enough that you can see the corner of its inside eye is all you need to get this done. This is easy. Now, all you have to do is get the horse to 'follow its nose' and go where you want it too. When a horse is turning or working on a circle, the rider should be able to just barely see the corner of the horse's inside eye. Any more bend than that and you have a horse that is 'over-bending' which is a bigger problem than having a stiff horse.

2) Neck -- The neck is also pretty easy to get to bend. The problem is that it should have the amount of bend in it that you want and need and no more. If a horse is going to follow its nose correctly, it cannot 'over-bend' or 'rubber-neck'. It should also not be 'stiff' and not giving its head and neck and should certainly not give its head and neck and then keep going forward or the opposite direction. [This of a horse that is bolts and running off while its head and neck is bent way around to one side.]

3) Shoulders -- The shoulders must move laterally when you want them to. It is easy to get a horse to 'yield' its hind quarters, It is much more difficult to get a horse to yield its shoulders. Most people like to teach a horse to yield its shoulders on the ground before asking it to do this under saddle but this is not necessary. But, one way or another, a horse has to be taught to place its shoulders where the rider wants them to be. This usually means that the rider must 'pull less' and 'push more' so that the horse does not learn to 'over-bend' and push its outside shoulder out. Any time a horse resists by over-bending, it will 'drift' shoulder first into the outside shoulder. The rider MUST stop pulling and instead, must push the horse's shoulders over until it is 'following the its nose. If the horse has developed a habit of doing this, it may take tapping on the horse's outside shoulder to get it over the bad habit of over-bending.

4) Ribs -- If a horse is going to learn to travel correctly, it must mend through its entire body. This means that its rib section -- that part of its body that is between its shoulders and hips. The rib section usually does not 'over-bend', but in some horse horses it can be very stiff and resistant. This is particularly true of heavily muscled horses that are very wide and thick. A horse must learn to do 'leg yielding' exercises to help them learn to bend and 'yield' to leg pressure.

5) Hips -- A horse must also be taught to place its hips where the rider wants them to be. Many horses, especially heavily made 'thick' horses, have a problem keeping their hips in line with where they should be when they turn or make circles. This is why a lot of stiff horses cross fire and cannot keep their hind quarters where they should be. The best way to see if a horse is keeping its hind quarters where they should be, is to have someone on the ground watch it. On an ordinary turn or circle, the horse's hind feet should be tracking in direct line with where the front feet are tracking. On a fairly small circle, a person watching should not only be able to see the hind feet following directly the tracks of the front feet, but the outside corner of a big square saddle pad should stick out showing the horse is bending from its nose to its tail.

This ended up longer than I intended, but I hope you have been able to wade through it.

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post #8 of 8 Old 11-11-2013, 08:43 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks Cherie.

Her resistance is mostly through the nose and neck. Once I unlock that she flows through rather nicely.
The mare is incredibly dominant and there's a bit of "make me" that rears it's head.

I tried something different yesterday. She's had a week off so decided to just have a slow easy ride.

I ran through this exercise with her the got on and did a bit of passenger which I don't often do with her.

Started with a small change of direction coming beautifully of me literally picking up the rein. Worked on steering for 5 mins then did more passenger for a couple of minutes.
This seemed to work a lot better than over focussing on the issue.
We then stepped it up to trot and also had some brilliant light turns.

In trot she was a bit stiff through the shoulder but my main focus for this session was getting her soft in my hands.
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