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Retraining a 'spur trained' horse?

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  • I spur not to pick
  • Spur trained horse won't go

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    11-06-2012, 12:36 AM
  #21
Banned
Hmmm well I don't use my spur to stop....I use my weight and brace my legs, no rein, no spur......I use my spur at neutral position to pick my horse up, I use it just behind the cinch to control his shoulders and I use it behind neutral to push his hips around and to make him pick up speed......BUT to slow down from a fast lope to a slow lope, I push my weight down into the stirrup, sit back and when he slows I encourage him to keep moving at that pace by releasing my brake a little (weight off a little in stirrups) and kissing to him and picking him up with my spurs if I need......
     
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    11-06-2012, 12:48 AM
  #22
Started
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muppetgirl    
Hmmm well I don't use my spur to stop....I use my weight and brace my legs, no rein, no spur......I use my spur at neutral position to pick my horse up, I use it just behind the cinch to control his shoulders and I use it behind neutral to push his hips around and to make him pick up speed......BUT to slow down from a fast lope to a slow lope, I push my weight down into the stirrup, sit back and when he slows I encourage him to keep moving at that pace by releasing my brake a little (weight off a little in stirrups) and kissing to him and picking him up with my spurs if I need......
Yes & what you are doing is normal,traditional training/use of spurs. Spur trained horses are different.Remember watching a girl trying to get her gelding to extend his trot out when asked for at an open show{he had been spur trained for breed show WP} the horse didn't know how she tried eg him on with her seat but you apply that leg {like you would to push on a horse normally} & he'd just pull up want to go slower
     
    11-06-2012, 12:53 AM
  #23
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by paintedpastures    
Yes & what you are doing is normal,traditional training/use of spurs. Spur trained horses are different.Remember watching a girl trying to get her gelding to extend his trot out when asked for at an open show{he had been spur trained for breed show WP} the horse didn't know how she tried eg him on with her seat but you apply that leg {like you would to push on a horse normally} & he'd just pull up want to go slower
Well that's a bit dicey!!! If I put my spur on my horse and he stopped....well I'd be getting right after him!!!
boots likes this.
     
    11-06-2012, 08:36 AM
  #24
Yearling
Does the owner know you plan on completely retraining their horse? Not just putting it back in a snaffle, but have you explained in detail how you plan to train and ride their horse? I do everything except dressage and roping on my mare, neither of which ever struck a chord for me. But she does all the gaming, cattle, equitation, reining, even a little jumping here and there. She is trained for contact, and no contact at all. But she is primarily seat/leg cued. That's not to say it didn't take me a long time to refine different disciplines. But that's my horse and what I wanted to do with her. If your not careful, you can really screw up a horses mind. I've seen it a ton of times. I would consider saving your self the time and effort and finding a horse that's already geared toward your interests.
franknbeans and Muppetgirl like this.
     
    11-06-2012, 09:16 AM
  #25
Trained
Op-I have to agree with those who are telling you to keep looking. I have NO idea why you are so set on a horse that truly is trained to death for a discipline other than what you want? As one who has fairly recently "gone to the dark side" from English to Western, I do understand some of what you are saying. One of my most difficult transitions was to give up the contact. For me, just like you said, it was a "security". However, now that I do ride in a correction bit, which took some learning, after it being a "no no" in H/J, I can say it is really nice to not have to touch your horse. I will also tell you that to have a horse that is really sensitive to the aids can be difficult and frustrating for both of you if you do not have really strong, still legs, and a great seat and hands. My other point would be-you do not even know IF this horse has a jump that even makes this all worth while! If he is anything like my western guy, it is NOT PRETTY. It is anything but fluid and lovely. I also am scratching my head as to why you would not look for a horse who is at least started in your chosen discipline. Is it a free unicorn or something? Farts rainbows? I have no idea what your attraction is...certainly there are other horses out there more suited. You are just asking for both of you to be frustrated and risk really screwing up a well trained horse.
Army wife and Muppetgirl like this.
     
    11-06-2012, 10:00 AM
  #26
Foal
Where in this thread have I indicated that I am dead set on getting this horse? Where in this thread did I say that I would never use a curb bit? Why are people so defensive on this forum when others question their methods and want to understand why they do the things they do?

If I want to waste my money on a horse I think will be fun on the trail and fun to see if I can train for equitation flat work and maybe go over some jumps I don't see how that affects anyone here. I'm kind of offended that folks here keep insisting that the 'way I described the horse' means he isn't spur trained and then they turn around and describe the horse's abilities to a T.

Why am I looking at him? Because I don't want to pay $500 a month just to ride for an hour a day three days a week. The other horses I've looked at have either been trail safe but aren't allowed to be trailered anywhere except shows or they're not trail safe at all. I'm also not interested in buying a horse at this time. I am on a students income and could not afford a $5000 colic surgery. Most people in college sell their horses because they're expensive. I sold mine but still want access to riding. The way this lease would work - just paying for his feed and a little extra for them to feed him twice a day - works great for me until it doesn't anymore, and they've said just give them a 30 day notice.
     
    11-06-2012, 10:19 AM
  #27
Green Broke
What does spending 5K on colic surgery have to do with anything?

We are trying to help you. You posted on here asking for advice and we are giving it too you.

This horse clearly isnt right for you. Why look at a western horse when you want to jump? I have come across many jumping horses that are broke to trail. Im curious why you want a horse that's never jumped before but has been on a trail. Opposed to a horse that jumps but has never been on a trail. It would make more sense to settle for a jumping horse and break it to trail yourself. Alot of jumping horses have dipped in to CC as it is, which is basically trail. It would be easier to break to trail than to jump. Unless you are looking to train a horse to jump.
     
    11-06-2012, 10:23 AM
  #28
Green Broke
Personally, if you leased my advanced western horse that is supposedly spur broke and tried to jump it. Fit would hit the shan.
     
    11-06-2012, 11:00 AM
  #29
Trained
Why don't you try to expand your horizons and learn to ride western? You might like it and actually lose your need to have contact with a horses' mouth to feel secure. You actually learn to trust your horse. Just a thought. Otherwise, look for another lease. I also would have a fit if someone retrained my guy to contact. IMO contact is easy to teach. Indirect reining-not so much. But, even if you can teach the horse contact, you still have to have really still legs, and a consistent seat. Otherwise, you will have a horse stopping when you mean go, going when you mean stop......and it goes on and on...which, btw would not be very "trail safe", imo.

I get the $5000-you feel the need to have an emergency reserve, and I totally get and agree with that. Kudos. Most folks don't feel that need, and then are up a creek when there is an emergency....and they are the first ones on here crying the blues.
Army wife likes this.
     
    11-06-2012, 11:10 AM
  #30
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by OTTB    
I prefer riding English and enjoy doing hunter/jumper. I am considering a 15 year old paint gelding for lease and he's been under an English saddle before. The problem is, he's fully spur trained. I laid the reins on his neck, had my hands on my hips, and steered him around with just my legs and butt. He does not stop dead on a dime when you give him the whoa cue but could this sort of thing have a negative impact for doing equitation flat and green hunter? With his age I don't want to do anything over 3 feet.

This is all assuming he LIKES jumping. I've only been on him for about 15 minutes to try him out. I'm bringing an general purpose saddle and a snaffle bit to try him out with direct reining and light contact on his mouth. The curb bit they have for him is pointless since he doesn't need it.
Hi, OTTB - back on the subject of your actual question -

I understand what you are trying to say - you need to know if he will respond to a snaffle for HJ riding and you are asking if anyone else basically has had experience with taking a more 'hands free' type horse and using them in a discipline where more 'direct rein' is needed and whether or not this would work?

I guess that would depend on how 'finished' this particular horse is - no one here would know and you won't either until you just get on and do a trial ride - get the owner's input and ask a bunch of questions - try him out both ways, english and western and then see if he is something you'd want to invest some time in and make sure you and the owner are on the same page with goals for this horse.

I've trained many a horse over the years that pick up the seat and leg cues really fast, but are no way trained up in the bridle yet - when you mentioned his little quirk about stopping, it simply makes me think he isn't a finished horse and maybe some time with the basics in a snaffle could be beneficial. I understand what others here worry about and that is the 'untraining' that might happen bringing a horse like this back to direct rein - it takes a long time and lot's of hard work to finish out a WP horse but then we don't know where this horse is at any level, and then if the owner doesn't mind and wants her horse to have a career in some jumping to make him more versatile, then that his their choice as well.

The horse is 15 years old, so if he is good as a WP prospect or even decent at the western equitation level and then learns a bit of english that could be used in a hunter over fences class, well I don't think that it could hurt a horse at this age - here in TX, for a horse that can do all the classes in 4H, we'd pay upwards of $7500/8000 for an older horse that can do a little of everything safely with our children - so the owner might have her own goals/reasons for leasing her guy out for english riding.

A good trial ride will give you a hint as to where he stands - back to your question, I've seen it go both ways - if he is really finished and trained up WP style, it could take months to go back to direct contact. If he is somewhere in the middle, not really 'finished' in any discipline, learning something new certainly won't hurt him - he is older and I think it would just be a matter of how much time you want to invest. I think it would be easier with an english trained horse, but if you like how this guy rides and the owner likes how you ride him, then it is really up to what makes you guys happy in the long run.
doubleopi likes this.
     

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