Rollkur

As an observation of an outsider, perhaps rollkur is why I am not interested in performing in that area? I see these horses who are stiff and mechanical and the riders who are so serious and think "that is just uncomfortable" I have a TB who would make a great dressage prospect, but I just can't bring myself to teach him something where that is the gold standard.

Even if you don't compete in dressage, it is still a basis for every other discipline. For show jumping you need collection, extension, balance... basic dressage really.

When I first saw top level dressage I was disgusted, which is one reason why I'm so passionate about it now. One of the reasons I want to become a coach is to try and bring back classical dressage, to revive the elegance, harmony and partnership that dressage SHOULD be.

Roro - It's a good thing you saved him, I'm happy to hear that he's in a safe and happy place now.
I remember one time I went to look at a horse, and this guy was selling a 3yr old draft cross. He was trying to show her off and one of the "dressage" riders got on and took her for a spin around the arena. To get this poor mare on the bit she used all her weight to pull back on the reins and seesaw on her mouth. The poor thing ran around with her head in the air and mouth wide open. Then the rider went so far as to say the horse was ill-mannered.

And for your horse, maybe he'd be a contender for a bitless bridle?

I agree with you lexxwolfen. When I saw what I mentioned in my previous post, I was disgusted and thought "Oh man, if this is what dressage is about...all that intensity and pain...I don't want to be involved." But I went and researched and found an awesome instructor since that has shown me different. It gives me a "mind cramp" if you will witnessing what those who do Rollkur do. If I get a mind cramp, can you imagine what nightmares the horses experience?! :O IMHO, Rollkur should not even be associated with dressage....it is misleading and abusive.

Unfortunately as long as it helps get results, it wont go anywhere unless the horse community unites and rallies to ban the practice... make it punishable by a massive fine and/or inprisonment and ban from owning horses ever again.

Those rollkur riders should watch this wonderful instructional video on how dressage should be.

Like I said, you'll have no argument here.

I don't like the method and never will, but it really ISN'T about educating people. If you go to the COTH boards, these people are well aware of what they do to their horses. They think that 'it hurts the horse' is propaganda. They think that if they slowly and carefully and gently pull the horse's head back in a stretch, that it's okay.

I don't like it, but I don't like seeing it bashed. It seems very blind and close-minded to me.

So, I have no clue about dressage and all that "disciplined" stuff. What is Rollkur?

google it and you'll find it on wikipedia...best explains it.

Just like the Western Pleasure debate, the only thing that needs to be done is make the judges mark it down and keep people that do it from winning. It would change in 5 years and you would see no more horses being contorted like that. The international dressage groups can change the rules and make it a mark against a rider that has a horse behind the verticle.

Kevinshorses, you bring up a very good point. I think that it is very important that judges mark down if a horse is trained with a questionable method. However, international riders almost NEVER actually use rollkur in the show ring. They use it at their training facility and/or in the warm-up ring. It is a similar dilemma to that of the soring in TWH shows, the practice is frowned upon but the judges are impressed by the movement it creates and therefore it is encouraged. The judge sees the end result of rollkur, which is a tense, flashy horse that throws its legs out and has a dead hind-end with a hollow topline. The judges need to be educated on the difference between a relaxed horse and a tense horse. Learning relaxation is training level for dressage riders, why should the top judges be able to escape this important lesson that the majority of beginning riders already know?

This is Anky, one of the top riders of today who uses rollkur. She is performing a very crude piaffe, but judges absolutely lover her and she has won many competitions. http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_XJPVbyyr-o...o_olympics.gif

Here is what a piaffe should look like: karlformyspace.jpg (image)

A novice rider could easily tell that Anky's piaffe is of much lower quality. There is little or no hind collection and her horse is leaning on the forehand. It does not take an expert to see this. The solution is, like kevins said, to educate the judges and train them to be able to recognize poor riding. To add on, warm-up arenas should be monitored for questionable methods and drug testing (to hide pain/discomfort etc) must be taken seriously; not only for dressage but for all disciplines in the show ring.