rounding again?

I'm sure everyone is quite sick of me on this topic lol

What do you all think?

(yes sorry the picture isn't at a real good angle)
To me his body looks rounded but his back doesn't appear to be "up"

Looks a lot better :) But you need to push him FORWARDS and INTO the bridle :)

Yeah I know! That day he was being a brat, so I was working on him just listening. I also want him to be able to get collected with a loose rein...where I have just enough contact with his mouth, but not enough where I'm constantly tugging on him mouth for something. He's REALLY responsive so I don't need hard contact at all

I agree that he needs to be pushed up into the bridle.
He also needs to round his back ...

I have to go now I will finish this later

the whole forum went through this with her before lol. It's what she's been working on.. and it is getting better

Sorry i've only just re-joined and I didn't know this.

Sonny, He looks a whole lot better but he can't be rounded if his back isn't. He still looks like he is moving from his front but his head is looks nice and vertical - I like that Take the slack out of your reins, hold some contact and drive him with your legs - move him into the bridle. It takes time for him to learn to collect - not just a day or even a month. One day you'll pick up the reins and he'll "bunch up" and automatically drive with his rear. That takes more time then you are giving him. Each time you give him slack, he learns the wrong thing. The slack should come at the end of the lesson as a signal that it's over and he did a good job; until then you need to keep him in the bridle.

Dressage horses do not develop until they have had years of training. You can't teach automatic collection in a month.

But isn't the point of collection not hanging on to the horses mouth all the time, but having them get rounded with a loose rein?

No I know it takes more than a day or a month to get collection, but everyone said that in his for sale video he was properly collected and such, so doesn't that mean he already knows how to?
Here's the link to the videos again
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrXDA5hnTXo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoV7p6ivRVE

Nice video and it shows your horse in a good light. Contact does not mean hanging on his mouth. A loose rein is a reward, contact means work. Your contact can be so light that it is imperceivable from the ground but you can feel him in your hands. A lightness in a horse comes from "feel". It is so hard to explain a "feel" but one day it will come together for you and you will know it. Before that time is will be mechanical.

It took me years to understand and actually have it come together. Before that I thought I understood but didn't really. Then one day, for a few moments, my horse suddenly felt like a feather under me and at that moment I understood. My teacher is a great horsewoman and was on the US team in the 50's riding open jumpers - Pat Debany. One of her daughters is still riding jumpers but now trains in France - Alice Debany (try google for them). Even though I went Western 20 years ago, my English roots are still with me.

I hope I am making sense with my ramblings

Nice horse BTW and I love the side passes.

What do you mean by:
?

I don't need a whole lot of contact to his mouth and he responds perfectly well with just leg aids, and he'll stay on the vertical...and he looks like that (in the picture) 90% of the time (the rest of the time he is allowed to do whatever he wants with his head)

He just won't "round" his back....his body will look arounded, but not his back :(