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serious help needed!

6K views 62 replies 27 participants last post by  beau159 
#1 · (Edited)
Alright so my girlfriend has a 2 year old red dunn quarter horse.. She has been bucked off 6 times now.. So we hooked up with a trainer, he worked with her for a week, got her to where we can ride her around town.. we have been riding all week around town, no problems, she isnt scared of anything, she walks with her head down, slow nice easy pace.. So today we went out into a corn field and walked down a drainage passage place in the field and she did wonderfull, Then we crossed the road and hit another passage in the field and my girlfriend moved to get a better seat in the saddle, and her horse flipped out, started spining, bucking, bunny hopping, girlfriend managed to stay on, got her calmed down. As soon as she gave her loose reins she started in again, this time flung her off into the mudd.. What the hell is wrong with this horse.. There was nothing to be affraid of.. Me and my horse just walked through there and there wasnt anything but grass there.. I asked our trainer about saddle fitting, but he is kinda like mr.gore he thinks one saddle fits all.. COuuld it be the saddle not fitting right, and then when she moved maybe she pinched. IDK please someone give us good advice and what else you may think.. Her horse is the red dunn, mine is the darker one
 

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#5 ·
I kinda agree with Breezy, she is not mentally ready. That said the horse is learning that she can get folks off. Is this horse like this on the ground? I would check saddle fit, different backs have different needs. Check her teeth, they should be fine but its worth a check. How is your girlfriend as a rider? be honest could she be doing something that the horse is too young to handle, ie tight on the reins, a bit heavy handed etc? There are horses that are unpredictable but for every one of them there are ten that just know how to get people off and get out of work. These are just my opinions and I am not an expert.

I would also keep rides short and sweet. No need to for miles just a quick around the barn. If she is good off and back to pasture.
 
#6 ·
Taking a 2 year old out for long taxing rides with only 1 week of professional training - with a trainer who believes 1-size-fits all for saddles. x.x I don't know where to start.

First of all if you want her to be useful most of her life STOP riding the 2 y/o. Horse's spines don't even close until they're 5-6.
Second, yes the saddle may not fit right - being only 2 her back is going to be changing for the next 3-4 years pretty extremely, then it should only change with dramatic feed or exercise changes causing muscle or weight gain or loss. So even if it fit last month it may not now.

It sounds to me like this horse really doesn't "know" much, she just blindly obeys because she has to until she just can't handle it anymore and does the only thing she can think of to relieve all of her issues.
I can't agree more with Spirit - Put her in a field. Do ground work and exercises for the next year or two, then start again.
 
#7 · (Edited by Moderator)
Her ground work we have done, she is very good on the ground. Like i said my gf and her follow me and my horse around town probably a 15 minute ride.. This has been going all week, head down, no sign of fear or anything.. her teeth are fine, she rides in a o ring snaffle. Gf knows how to ride, so there isnt a problem there.. This all happened when ashley moved to get a better seat and all hell broke loose.. I have a couple of trainers that are going to work with her in the spring time.. But i cant ride with out my gf, or else my horse freaks out and does stupid stuff all the time.. She has seperation anxiety. Which i dont know how to fix that either..
 
#8 ·
Too young to be trail riding. Or be riding at all. Period!

At that age, my horse was being hand walked everywhere and ponied off my old mare. If I couldn't pony her, I hand walked her.

Before leaving the yard, I taught her showmanship- the horse must be able to walk and trot with a handler, back up, and yield the hindquarters.

I always used a short chain under her chin, and carried a whip with me on walks. If something upset her, I would make her back up, yield the hindquarters and sometimes I also carried the lunge line in case we needed to do a short lunging lesson.

People gave me weird looks as she was a big girl, but she was just a baby and grew a full hand during her 2 yr old year.

I did not do much riding during that time. At home I put weight on her and got off again. That was it. I taught her to trailer and took her places to get exposed.

There is a reason this horse is acting up- it is either terrified or in pain. Some horses also buck when excited, but that is usually just a few bucks and not several.
 
#12 ·
From what you describe, the horse is not used to weight on it's back. When the weight shifts suddenly the horse panics. This horse needs to be worked in the roundpen, got on and off, and started slowly. Until I can canter in the yard, I do not ride out of the yard.

For now, walk or pony out of the yard, and for 10 minutes of riding work, I would stay in the roundpen- lean on the horse and get her/him used to weight. Get off, get back on. Walk in circles, and do changes of the direction through the center. Get off. Nothing more than that. No faster.

What happens if this horse bolts on the trail? Your horse will bolt too as he has separation issues. If the horse starts bucking while galloping someone can get badly hurt.

If the horse continues to buck people off, it will end up dangerous and pts, and this will be your fault for not training it correctly. It could get someone killed. The neighbor girl broke her back- bucked off on a shell rock drive way - was lucky to even walk again.
 
#13 ·
Reba should be used to everything, we have done all of this stuff. We have ground drove, weight on back, lunged, with gf on her, all this stuff has been done.. trainer has rode her down the road and through ditches no problem.. i think honestly its the saddle, we switched saddles bcs it fits my gf better but we didnt think about how it would affect the horse.. But we are going to a saddle fitter and see if this is whats causing it
 
#15 ·
And as for my horse bolting, hahah well when reba was bucking my horse turned her head and was looking at them like she was an idiot.. hell she wanted to keep going through the field.. i had to get her to stop and turn around.. My horse is fully broke, i can do anything on her. i just ask and she does..
 
#16 ·
Two and how many months. She looks like a nicely built horse with good bones. Reining and reined cow horse people start their horses at 1 and a half. With that said I ride in the same events and my horse helps me get there... so of she is giving me the pleasure and joy working for me in the show pen I need to treat her right. I started mine at two and a half which she is still growing mentally and physically. I specifically told the trainer to go light and took her home for LIGHT trail riding... nothing over an hour.

DustinWhite: Many people start their horse young, but the posters are correct it is safer and they are more mentally ready at a later age. I age do some more ground work and respect issues. Lunge her with the saddle on and see what happens. Use wet paper towels or do a saddle check similar to see of saddle is resting evenly. It could be pain, chripractic issues, OR attitude. We had a horse that would show no signs and then start bucking but she was a rarity most show signs unless spooked or pain. It is so hard to say but good luck! I would give some time off and work with a good trainer when able... ride with the trainer... Also check the saddle and if chiropractic issues or more same deal have a chiropractor out... My horse at seven bucked it was chiropractic glad I followed advice... but that gets spendy and long shot there...
 
#17 ·
Dustin White: As for your horse... we do several exercises... if she won't ride out alone work hard close to the other horses walk away.... and stop... repeat.. expand area farther and farther away. Make away less work and rewarding... being by others a lot of work... you need to do this often for it to work... consistency. On trails all horses usually show a little anxiety. COMMUNICATE... we let one horse lope ahead or trot ahead keep another at a walk yell to rider ahead of anxiety is creeping up on horse behind to uncomfortable.. start small distances one trots ahead then stop let behind horse catch up... keep playing with this until the horses realizes I am okay alone and we get back together
 
#18 ·
To pony you hold on to the other horses halter rope and get on your horse and pull on lead rope. BEFORE trying this make sure lead horse will not kick and ponied horse will not freak being so close. You can tie the horse to yours but I do not recommend it in case of emergencies or use a quick release snap. My experience... the other horse will pull or maybe rear... if pull keep pressure forward... my horse is good he keeps a walking... I use him for young stock that pull... they eventual go if I walk with no pressure then just ride around.

Quick tie: I tried ponying my mom's filly with she freaked and reared and she pulled the saddle sideways before I got to quick release and I fell on ground. The important part here was my horse stood like a rock and stared at me like what are you doing on the ground.. love that horse... so personally I like to hold lead rope
 
#19 ·
nell J: yeah the quarter horse is built like a tank! Short and stocky! She might not be mentally ready, but she knows everything we ask of her, Trot, canter, whoaa. we have done all of this.. But pretty much the same saddle, and everytime anything over 20 minutes or so she is bucking. Thats why i wondered if it was the saddle! I called a saddle fitter and he seems to think its the saddle. I rather pay the 30$ for an expert to check it out than to pay 3000$ for my gf being in the hospital.. And yes i have tried ponying i remember now, the trainer wanted me to try it, and they get along good no problems, but i felt uncomfortable so i just let go of her.. And gfs horse is going to be 3 years old in jan. Mine is 10 to 11 years old. Not quite sure.. She used to be a trail horse about 5-6 years ago, i just got her back into riding.. And we ride bitless and she loves it..
 
#20 · (Edited by Moderator)
What the hell is wrong with this horse.
This horse is two. This horse has the mentality of a baby. You are treating the horse as if she is 15 and been-there-done-that and should be 1000% bombproof, just because you say so.

So we hooked up with a trainer, he worked with her for a week
You seriously think she is supposed to be a perfect trained horse with no training issues after ONE WEEK?

If a 5-year-old child took one year of kindergarten, what do you think would happen if you jumped them up to 10th grade the next year? That's what you are trying to do to your horse.

cant just keep getting bucked off. There is no reason for it.. No one is doing anything wrong to her
You're right. It's not safe to keep getting bucked off, and you are teaching the horse that she can buck off her rider.

But there IS a reason for it. YOU. You have unrealistic expectations for this horse and you are forgetting that she is only a baby. She is two.

Actually, the horse is the smarter of the two of you, at this point. She's figured out an easy way to get out of work; just buck the rider off. Sounds like a smart horse to me.

As Tom Dorrance once said: "When I hear somebody talk about a horse or a cow being stupid, I figure its a sure sign that the animal has outfoxed them."

This all happened when ashley moved to get a better seat and all heck broke loose..
So? She's 2 years old!!!!! What do you expect? She is not a finished trained horse. She is an unreliable, unpredictable two-year-old.

But i cant ride with out my gf, or else my horse freaks out and does stupid stuff all the time.. She has seperation anxiety. Which i dont know how to fix that either..
Oh, your horse is also stupid? Refer to my quote of Tom Dorrance above.

STOP BLAMING THE HORSES. The riders are the one to blame.

She might not be mentally ready, but she knows everything we ask of her
There a big difference from a horse being able to mentally handle all the tasks you ask of it.

Sure, you can train a 7-year-old child to run a combine. It's just a serious of steps to turn it on, steer, and run the gas. That 7-year-old child can do everything you ask of them. But what if a strange noise start happening on the combine? They're going to panic. What if they get stuck in a low spot? They are going to panic.

She is not mentally ready and you aren't doing her any favors by teaching her bad habits, like learning she can buck off her rider.

You need to send this horse to a trainer much, much longer than a week, and definately do not handle or work this horse unsupervised. And you actually probably need to turn her out for the winter to mature, and send her to a trainer in the spring.

Or better yet, sell her and actually buy a horse that is suitable for what you want to do.

Harsh response? Yes. But I don't appreciate you coming on here bashing your poor horse, when the horse is not the one at fault. Sure, might be the saddle fit. It's possible. But even so, I would bet that most of it is 1)lack of training 2) inexperienced riders 3) horse not mentally ready.
 
#21 ·
If your horse has "separation issues" she is not fully broke. If you don't know how to deal with that I'm not surprised you are having trouble with a baby with a week of professional training. You say you have done all the groundwork, but have you done it fully? Have you done it until you can do anything and everything and she is COMPLETELY used to it? Just because you can sit on her and walk around doesn't mean she is broke. I remember a thread on here where the rider on her green horse stopped and took a break then asked the horse to move and the horse went into a bucking fit. She is green. She is a baby. It's not her having a screw loose or anything. And I don't see how her knowing cues justifies her not being mentally ready. And once again, knowing cues does not mean the horse is broke!
If it's related to the amount of time sounds like she is tired and has learned how to be done. Not a good habit, but is probably coming from her not being ready. A week with a professional does not make her broke and knowing cues, or having her head down, does not make her broke.

While I do agree you should give the mare a break for awhile and then restart her, thoroughly, and slowly, and then put miles on her (I would get a regular trainer to help you)... it very well could be the saddle that is part of the problem. Fit the saddle to the horse, always, THEN the rider.

I would work with your own mare so you feel comfortable riding out on your own. I know it's more fun with someone else, but it is good for her to be able to do that either way. Definitely have the saddle checked out as the first step. While I think it will help, and is important, I feel there are probably holes in the filly's training that are causing the issue in the first place..
 
#22 · (Edited)
I think you have the wrong mentality on the horse. It's not "what the hell is wrong with her" it should be "what can we do to fix this issue". There are very few horses that do things on purpose and are vindictive, and maybe an equal amount that are actually screwed up enough to that it seems that way. It is almost always the humans fault :) whether through actual error or just holes in the training. Just because the horses know HOW to do something doesn't mean they KNOW it, they are horses, they don't think the same way we do. I almost feel like you expect them too. You have to have them so trained it is automatic and NORMAL for them that you are on their back. It doesn't happen overnight. Showing a horse it's ok to be on it's back once or twice will not get rid of centuries of breeding screaming "get off my back", so she can know the cues doesn't mean she's broke.


Not at all trying to put down your girlfriend, even the best of us have had "silly" falls where we really should of stayed on, but if they were just little bunny hops, and a little spinning is she really a good enough rider for this horse at this point in time? Every time she comes of that horse learns that she caused that, and obviously no one wants her hurt either. I just hear she keeps on falling off and then that the horse didn't really do anything. So if it was one of those random things, they happen, but if not maybe you should both really think and be honest about it. Also there are plenty of "good" riders out there who have no business on a young green horse, that is for "great" riders and trainers, since not only are you riding and need to be prepared you are also teaching the horse.

Also, you keep on saying the mare has her head down. I'm picturing a nice low western pleasure headset type thing? Not relevant to training and not something for a green horse to even know. If she has her head down to her knees and a nice loose rein no wonder she is getting people off when she feels like it! While she can have a nice relaxed headset and a "loose" rein you should be able to easily grab her head as soon as she thinks about putting it down! She can't spin and buck if you are in control.

Sorry if I'm way off on either of those, just responding what came to mind when I was reading. I agree with some of the points beau makes too. Hopefully something I said was helpful!
 
#23 · (Edited by Moderator)
You people are awful!!!! At least he is asking for advice.... instead you take out the whip and bash him. How well does your horse respond to bashing.... you wouldn't do it... so why not help... when asked that is the first step he asked not for people to bash... there is a correct way to help... my gosh if you talk to your horse like you do to this young man!

Backing off a bit: yep we are horse people and I get the heart strings. Every post about age and trainer gets this. Pros start at 2 or younger I myself dislike this... many others start young yep mistakes often it isn't because it is cruelty it is what you are taught... and your back ground. I encourage people to wait and it depends on breed of horse. 3 is a good start still go light... but this is simply MY opinion.

Second you learn as you go... my ten month trained horse has seperation anxiety.. I guess I will sell all mine cause they aren't trained... cripes he asked how to work on that...
 
#29 · (Edited by Moderator)
Just because the pros start their horses at 2 doesn't mean its right. And most horses iv known that were riden as 2 year olds are retired by 15. Facts are facts 2 year old is to young to ride.

Just because horse is big doesn't mean she's mature also doesn't mean she mentally ready to train. By the way we are not bashing op we are stating facts here.

Horse is screaming she's not ready for what's being asked does one need to be a rocket scientis to figure it out.
 
#24 ·
We are currently training a filly that is 3-5 years old. We aren't sure because she came to us injured and with no information. We gave her a year of lots of ponying and short rides. This year, we ride away from our property and we always wear a helmet and are prepared for spooks and freak outs.

I think you are right to check saddle fit. And remember this young horse can have unpredictable behavior from time to time. That's how young horses are!

For some of you who have posted such harsh responses, lighten up! OP says horse is 3 next month,and they are taking it slow, getting help from a trainer.
Posted via Mobile Device
 
#25 ·
DustinWhite: Thanks for asking... and checking saddle. You are trying and seeking. I commend you! Also us hot blooded horse lovers do get emotional... sorry any site you will get this. It is what it is. You seem to have tough skin and keep seeking. Remember those angered are horse lovers too so listen and pick a chose from good advice.
 
#26 ·
My horse which is 10 years old is fully broke, but she is attached to my gfs horse like crazy.. My gfs horse reba is the lead mare, i dont have a real tough time riding her away from the house, until we get half way around a block and she realizes that reba is not there, then she starts calling out, walking faster, weaving.. I jsut keep her moving, stop her when i want to stop. I can handle my horse, gf is actually more experienced than me on riding, but her horse whips around so fast that it throws her off... And yeah i understand about not riding them hard, and we dont.. we dont even trot her, we just walk, and her headset that is just normal, we didnt teach that. Both of our horses we rescued from bad situation, i know more about more horse than she knows about hers tho.. We were lied to about hers, and mine used to be a trail horse 5-6 years ago, and was rode in a reg curb bit. Mine is part tennessee walker/quarter horse. When we got her horse she was around 600# and we have had her for 8 months and now she weighs 900#. My horse tia is gaining weight, and is doing very nicely.. Acourse i dont use the curb bit, i ride sidepulls, bitless and she loves it.. She listens well, so yes i consider her all the way broke. She knew everything as soon as i put the saddle on. Asked her to trot, canter. Backed her up and she tucked in her head and backwards we went.. I call that a good horse.. Just got to work on the seperation ****!!!
 
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