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serious help needed!

This is a discussion on serious help needed! within the Horse Training forums, part of the Training Horses category

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        12-04-2013, 11:46 PM
      #21
    Green Broke
    If your horse has "separation issues" she is not fully broke. If you don't know how to deal with that I'm not surprised you are having trouble with a baby with a week of professional training. You say you have done all the groundwork, but have you done it fully? Have you done it until you can do anything and everything and she is COMPLETELY used to it? Just because you can sit on her and walk around doesn't mean she is broke. I remember a thread on here where the rider on her green horse stopped and took a break then asked the horse to move and the horse went into a bucking fit. She is green. She is a baby. It's not her having a screw loose or anything. And I don't see how her knowing cues justifies her not being mentally ready. And once again, knowing cues does not mean the horse is broke!
    If it's related to the amount of time sounds like she is tired and has learned how to be done. Not a good habit, but is probably coming from her not being ready. A week with a professional does not make her broke and knowing cues, or having her head down, does not make her broke.

    While I do agree you should give the mare a break for awhile and then restart her, thoroughly, and slowly, and then put miles on her (I would get a regular trainer to help you)... it very well could be the saddle that is part of the problem. Fit the saddle to the horse, always, THEN the rider.

    I would work with your own mare so you feel comfortable riding out on your own. I know it's more fun with someone else, but it is good for her to be able to do that either way. Definitely have the saddle checked out as the first step. While I think it will help, and is important, I feel there are probably holes in the filly's training that are causing the issue in the first place..
         
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        12-04-2013, 11:58 PM
      #22
    Green Broke
    I think you have the wrong mentality on the horse. It's not "what the hell is wrong with her" it should be "what can we do to fix this issue". There are very few horses that do things on purpose and are vindictive, and maybe an equal amount that are actually screwed up enough to that it seems that way. It is almost always the humans fault :) whether through actual error or just holes in the training. Just because the horses know HOW to do something doesn't mean they KNOW it, they are horses, they don't think the same way we do. I almost feel like you expect them too. You have to have them so trained it is automatic and NORMAL for them that you are on their back. It doesn't happen overnight. Showing a horse it's ok to be on it's back once or twice will not get rid of centuries of breeding screaming "get off my back", so she can know the cues doesn't mean she's broke.


    Not at all trying to put down your girlfriend, even the best of us have had "silly" falls where we really should of stayed on, but if they were just little bunny hops, and a little spinning is she really a good enough rider for this horse at this point in time? Every time she comes of that horse learns that she caused that, and obviously no one wants her hurt either. I just hear she keeps on falling off and then that the horse didn't really do anything. So if it was one of those random things, they happen, but if not maybe you should both really think and be honest about it. Also there are plenty of "good" riders out there who have no business on a young green horse, that is for "great" riders and trainers, since not only are you riding and need to be prepared you are also teaching the horse.

    Also, you keep on saying the mare has her head down. I'm picturing a nice low western pleasure headset type thing? Not relevant to training and not something for a green horse to even know. If she has her head down to her knees and a nice loose rein no wonder she is getting people off when she feels like it! While she can have a nice relaxed headset and a "loose" rein you should be able to easily grab her head as soon as she thinks about putting it down! She can't spin and buck if you are in control.

    Sorry if I'm way off on either of those, just responding what came to mind when I was reading. I agree with some of the points beau makes too. Hopefully something I said was helpful!
         
        12-05-2013, 12:00 AM
      #23
    Weanling
    You people are awful!!!! At least he is asking for advice.... instead you take out the whip and bash him. How well does your horse respond to bashing.... you wouldn't do it... so why not help... when asked that is the first step he asked not for people to bash... there is a correct way to help... my gosh if you talk to your horse like you do to this young man!

    Backing off a bit: yep we are horse people and I get the heart strings. Every post about age and trainer gets this. Pros start at 2 or younger I myself dislike this... many others start young yep mistakes often it isn't because it is cruelty it is what you are taught... and your back ground. I encourage people to wait and it depends on breed of horse. 3 is a good start still go light... but this is simply MY opinion.

    Second you learn as you go... my ten month trained horse has seperation anxiety.. I guess I will sell all mine cause they aren't trained... cripes he asked how to work on that...
    farmpony84 likes this.
         
        12-05-2013, 12:01 AM
      #24
    Yearling
    We are currently training a filly that is 3-5 years old. We aren't sure because she came to us injured and with no information. We gave her a year of lots of ponying and short rides. This year, we ride away from our property and we always wear a helmet and are prepared for spooks and freak outs.

    I think you are right to check saddle fit. And remember this young horse can have unpredictable behavior from time to time. That's how young horses are!

    For some of you who have posted such harsh responses, lighten up! OP says horse is 3 next month,and they are taking it slow, getting help from a trainer.
    Posted via Mobile Device
         
        12-05-2013, 12:05 AM
      #25
    Weanling
    DustinWhite: Thanks for asking... and checking saddle. You are trying and seeking. I commend you! Also us hot blooded horse lovers do get emotional... sorry any site you will get this. It is what it is. You seem to have tough skin and keep seeking. Remember those angered are horse lovers too so listen and pick a chose from good advice.
         
        12-05-2013, 12:18 AM
      #26
    Foal
    My horse which is 10 years old is fully broke, but she is attached to my gfs horse like crazy.. My gfs horse reba is the lead mare, I don't have a real tough time riding her away from the house, until we get half way around a block and she realizes that reba is not there, then she starts calling out, walking faster, weaving.. I jsut keep her moving, stop her when I want to stop. I can handle my horse, gf is actually more experienced than me on riding, but her horse whips around so fast that it throws her off... And yeah I understand about not riding them hard, and we don't.. we don't even trot her, we just walk, and her headset that is just normal, we didnt teach that. Both of our horses we rescued from bad situation, I know more about more horse than she knows about hers tho.. We were lied to about hers, and mine used to be a trail horse 5-6 years ago, and was rode in a reg curb bit. Mine is part tennessee walker/quarter horse. When we got her horse she was around 600# and we have had her for 8 months and now she weighs 900#. My horse tia is gaining weight, and is doing very nicely.. Acourse I don't use the curb bit, I ride sidepulls, bitless and she loves it.. She listens well, so yes I consider her all the way broke. She knew everything as soon as I put the saddle on. Asked her to trot, canter. Backed her up and she tucked in her head and backwards we went.. I call that a good horse.. Just got to work on the seperation ****!!!
         
        12-05-2013, 12:24 AM
      #27
    Green Broke
    She does sound like a good horse, simply put I don't consider a horse fully broke if they act up when they are by themselves, but as long as she is safe and you feel comfortable on her that is all that matters. Kudo's to the two of you for rescuing those mares.
    Would love an update once the saddle fitter is out (have him check your mare too!)
         
        12-05-2013, 12:30 AM
      #28
    Foal
    Yeah ill check that too.. . Im planning on fixing her seperation stuff, im just going to tie her up for awhile everyday too where so can't see her, maybe go on walks, rides, with out her horse with us.. Get her used to going alone.. She is very vocal anyways, we have horses next door, and she is always talking to them..
    Yogiwick likes this.
         
        12-05-2013, 01:51 AM
      #29
    Banned
    Arrow

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Nell J    
    You people are awful!!!! At least he is asking for advice.... instead you take out the whip and bash him. How well does your horse respond to bashing.... you wouldn't do it... so why not help... when asked that is the first step he asked not for people to bash... there is a correct way to help... my gosh if you talk to your horse like you do to this young man!

    Backing off a bit: yep we are horse people and I get the heart strings. Every post about age and trainer gets this. Pros start at 2 or younger I myself dislike this... many others start young yep mistakes often it isn't because it is cruelty it is what you are taught... and your back ground. I encourage people to wait and it depends on breed of horse. 3 is a good start still go light... but this is simply MY opinion.

    Second you learn as you go... my ten month trained horse has seperation anxiety.. I guess I will sell all mine cause they aren't trained... cripes he asked how to work on that...
    Just because the pros start their horses at 2 doesn't mean its right. And most horses iv known that were riden as 2 year olds are retired by 15. Facts are facts 2 year old is to young to ride.

    Just because horse is big doesn't mean she's mature also doesn't mean she mentally ready to train. By the way we are not bashing op we are stating facts here.

    Horse is screaming she's not ready for what's being asked does one need to be a rocket scientis to figure it out.
         
        12-05-2013, 03:01 AM
      #30
    Yearling
    First, let me say that I do understand that it can feel like people here are jumping down your throat. But once you're around for awhile you realize that they're really trying to help. So don't take anything I say too harshly.

    I really feel like you're rushing your young mare. I understand that she seems physically mature and it can be hard to remember her age. She's still just a baby, and babies have short attention spans! That could explain why she acts up later in the ride. A week of training isn't enough honestly. She may have learned a lot in that time, but that doesn't mean she actually absorbed it. 30 days is a minimum to start a horse in my opinion, but 90 is even better. She needs time to solidify what she's learned.

    Here's my suggestion-stop riding her. I would send her to a trainer for at LEAST 30 days in the spring. In the meantime, I would go back to ground work. Teach her to lower her head from poll pressure, teach her to flex her head left to right. Make sure she has a rock solid stop. Teach her voice cues for the walk, trot and canter on the lunge line or in a round pen. You can do all of this with her saddled up.
    I would also teach the one-rein stop.

    I would also do what you can to desensitize her. Play with tarps, plastic bags, walk her around cones and barrels (you'd be surprised how terrifying they can be, lol!) Expose her to anything and everything you can find from the ground. I'd pony her if you're comfortable with it, if not take her on walks.

    Once she's back from the trainer I'd start out in the round pen, and please PLEASE wear a helmet. Then keep rides down to about ten minutes.

    *With any training you do, ground work or riding, keep lessons short and always end on a good note. If you know she gets pissy after 15 minutes, stop at 14 minutes!*

    I agree that checking out the saddle fit is a great idea. I don't doubt that you and your girlfriend are good riders, but being an experienced rider doesn't always translate to a good trainer. Training is much more sensitive.

    As far as your mare, I think tying her up out of sight from Reba is a good idea. Just be sure you're within sight in case she gets herself into a situation where she could hurt herself. And remember, END ON A GOOD NOTE! Don't put her up if she's still a fire-breathing dragon. Make sure she's well relaxed before you put her back with Reba.

    I hope I helped! Please update when the saddle fitter comes out! :)
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