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serious help needed!

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        12-05-2013, 09:33 AM
      #31
    Weanling
    Nell J: when an owner starts calling his horse 'stupid' because of their lack of ability to 'read' a horse they are training, a little 'awfulness is called for.

    To me the 'stupid' horse is a reflection of the owner. Stupid is as stupid does.

    If parents sent their child to first grade and they had rarely used flash cards to teach ABC's, rarely read to that child and then berated (calling him/her stupid) the child because he/she was not picking up reading as quickly as the other first graders.....is it the childs fault or the parents?

    The little mare is training these two young people very well: I buck they stop. How many horses are in feedlots right now because they learned bucking means rider off, riding over?

    If you do not like your horses ground manners, or manners under saddle, etc., don't point your finger at the horse.......go look in the mirror....that is where the problems originate from.
         
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        12-05-2013, 10:27 AM
      #32
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Nell J    
    You people are awful!!!!

    Dustinwhite87 has a very harsh opinion of his own horses. He has called them stupid more than once in this thread and wonders "what the hell is wrong with them". I don't think you need to worry about how us "awful people" treat our horses, because we at least understand the mentality and training of a 2-year-old filly.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dustinwhite87    
    My horse which is 10 years old is fully broke, but she is attached to my gfs horse like crazy.
    If the horse has a serious buddy sour problem, then the horse is NOT fully broke because the horse does not respect and listen to the rider, nor does she trust her rider.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dustinwhite87    
    She listens well, so yes I consider her all the way broke.
    ........Except she doesn't listen to you when she's having separation issues. Again, not quite "all the way broke".

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dustinwhite87    
    Im planning on fixing her seperation stuff, im just going to tie her up for awhile everyday too where so can't see her,
    While the "patience tree" has taught many a horse to stand still and relax, you are still going to need to go through the process of teaching your horse to respect you and trust you. That means ground work. Taking her out for walks is great and all, but if you just plod along without asking her to really do much of anything, she'll probably still throw a fit and be a nervous wreck. You've got to actively engage her. Move the hindquarters. Move the shoulders. Back up. Give to the bit. Etc. Give her tons of things to think about, regarding YOU, to get her to pay attention to you and listen to you. Timing is so, so, very important. If you don't have proper timing with your groundwork with pressure and release, you'll either teach her nothing or make the buddy sour issue worse.

    And don't go take her out for an hour walk on the first try. You'll fry her brain from the anxiety. Start small. We're talking 5 minutes. And build it up.

    Take the time to teach your mare to handle being alone; she's not the stupid one. And then leave that 2-year-old alone until he can mature. Age doesn't matter: Some 2-year-old can handle work that some 5-year-olds can't, and vice versa. Every horse has a different threshold for attention and learning.
         
        12-05-2013, 12:24 PM
      #33
    Weanling
    Spirit88: if it is wrong then why are futurities for three year olds only? If I wait tile three to start my horse she won't have enough training to ride in the futurities. If two is too young why do they have competitions set up for only three year olds to compete in?

    Alright.... Spirit.... now that I said that.... I will not argue with everyone about when they started their horses at those competitons it will do no good and hurt feelings. I may however talk abour a friend who had a horse get hurt starting it to young that was devastated and ask questions about the risk involved.

    My opinion is these organizations need to make rules on when horses can be started and up the competition ages! I would fight for this movement. Yeah many are fine started young... so what percentage need to be hurt because of starting to early before an organization changes to a safer age to start them? Blah.... I won't even watch a futurity show... or compete myself because my horses are life long ponies...

    I won't get people going on the age of the horse being trained. This post is about his horse... and THE majority are saying wait... :)

    I read up on horse growth and training. I wish I had the link because they really are not dully grown until five or six and at young ages problems can develops. Lunging them around in circles as babes is also very bad fo them..
         
        12-05-2013, 12:29 PM
      #34
    Weanling
    My main point is any site I see on horses I hear complaints, especially from green riders that they will never post again because people are harsh. Some times kind advice goes farther.
         
        12-05-2013, 01:58 PM
      #35
    Weanling
    Sometimes kind advice goes unheeded and the poster keeps asking the same question. So more 'pressure' is needed. Just like when my kids or horse do not listen....I have to be harsher to get them to pay attention.

    The little mare in question is also getting 'harsh' with her rider because she is not being listened to.
         
        12-05-2013, 02:22 PM
      #36
    Banned
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Nell J    
    Spirit88: if it is wrong then why are futurities for three year olds only? If I wait tile three to start my horse she won't have enough training to ride in the futurities. If two is too young why do they have competitions set up for only three year olds to compete in?

    Alright.... Spirit.... now that I said that.... I will not argue with everyone about when they started their horses at those competitons it will do no good and hurt feelings. I may however talk abour a friend who had a horse get hurt starting it to young that was devastated and ask questions about the risk involved.

    My opinion is these organizations need to make rules on when horses can be started and up the competition ages! I would fight for this movement. Yeah many are fine started young... so what percentage need to be hurt because of starting to early before an organization changes to a safer age to start them? Blah.... I won't even watch a futurity show... or compete myself because my horses are life long ponies...

    I won't get people going on the age of the horse being trained. This post is about his horse... and THE majority are saying wait... :)

    I read up on horse growth and training. I wish I had the link because they really are not dully grown until five or six and at young ages problems can develops. Lunging them around in circles as babes is also very bad fo them..

    I own a AQHA gelding he has plenty of talent to of been shown in futurities. I chose not to do so because I want my horse to be ridable well into his 20s. Right or wrong doesnt matter fact is 2 year olds are to imature to be riden.

    Everybody has their choice on when to start their horse if it be 2 or 4 years their decision. I don't agree with starting 2 year olds and NEVER will. I saddled and bridled my 2 year olds but never really worked them. Did leading them around with tack on so they could get used to the feel of it. I never lunged them or put my weight on them. Did basic ground work leading,backing,turning and just walking. Taught them to side pass to yeild front end and yeild hindend.

    They never broke a sweat doing what I asked I kept it very low key and only 10 minutes sessions a day.By the time they were 4 starting them was a breeze. They had all the basics done and no bucking issue once riden.

    OPS horse is telling them it isnt ready for whats being asked. Now this horse has learned it can get rid of its rider once they learn that the rodeo is on.

    All theses 2 and 3 year old who are spinning and slidding and running circles are going to be USED UP by 10 or 12. If that's what showing is about I WANT NOTHING TO DO WITH IT!!

    Your right they need to up the age of starting these horses but wont happen its been this way for years.

    In the end its up to OP on weather or not to keep riding and working this horse. Like I said earlier get one more ride on horse without it bucking you off. Then turn her out and let her grow up.
         
        12-05-2013, 03:42 PM
      #37
    Green Broke
    She is not ready physically no matter what she looks like. Beyond that she is not ready mentally. Period.

    Like giving a 14 year old kid a management position. Sometimes they may do pretty well.. and the rare one will succeed. Most need to do a lot of growing up.

    And a 2 year old exploding when you wiggle in the saddle is not unusual. At. All.

    Leastways GF landed soft.. in the mud.
         
        12-05-2013, 04:11 PM
      #38
    Showing
    Guys, it's not just whether a horse is started at 2. Much more importantly is how they're started. Don't get me wrong, I'm not condoning starting horses at 2, but it can be done with minimal damage (physical or emotional) by someone who knows what they're doing.

    OP, IMHO, neither you or your GF has enough experience or knowledge to help this filly be all that she can be. At this point, she's heading down a very dark road that ends in a very bad place. She's still a baby who has had basically zero preparation for the outside world. There is so much more to training a horse than teaching them "pulling this rein means turn and kicking means go".

    This filly was flung into the world with virtually no preparation or training, it's no wonder that she panics and reacts the only way she knows how. She's never been taught how to handle her fear, she's never been taught another way to react. Whether or not she could have been ready if she'd been started correctly, we'll never know, but she's telling you now that she's not ready. She's being asked too much and gets overwhelmed. If she's got a saddle that's pinching, well, that's just compounding the problem because not only is she confused and frustrated, she's being hurt as well.

    Give this filly at least another year, then send her to a good trainer who can re-start her correctly. Leave her there no less than 60 days, and then your GF needs to take some lessons on her with the trainer to learn the buttons and triggers that she's got.

    IMHO, if you keep expecting so much from this filly so quickly, then it's going to end badly for everyone involved, but it will be the poor filly who pays the highest price.
         
        12-05-2013, 05:07 PM
      #39
    Green Broke
    To add to the very good advice from SMRobs, I will add while the filly is growing up and then goes out to training, you and your GF should take riding lessons together. It will help.

    Even as someone who was training horses and had ridden thousands of miles, I would go and take lessons here and there as a "tune up." We all can develop bad habits that we do not see. It was fun to ride different horses and talk to different trainers and riders. Expanded my knowledge while I was at it.
         
        12-05-2013, 05:29 PM
      #40
    Foal
    We are just going to trade the horse and get a better one, one that we can handle. I talked to a different trainer today, and it sounds like our horse can't be cured of the bucking, it sounds like its unpredictable bucking. So we are getting a fully broke one
         

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