She's way too harsh! - Page 7 - The Horse Forum
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post #61 of 69 Old 06-04-2009, 08:45 PM
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I completely agree, I have a mare to prove it. She was treated badly and she has it in her head that when it is time to argue she's going to give it all she's got rather than ***** foot around with the small stuff. Ingredients for disaster. When a dog is cornered... and all that jazz.

Some days it's not worth chewing through the straps.
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post #62 of 69 Old 06-05-2009, 12:35 AM
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Originally Posted by MacabreMikolaj View Post
I have to say onetoomany, the fact that you hit your horses for stepping on your feet is a little unbelieveable to me. Horses do not "delibrately" step on feet, and smacking them around for it is the silliest thing I've ever heard. If my horse steps on my foot, it was my OWN fault for not watching where my feet were! How on earth do you expect your horse to take care of both himself AND you? That's the responsibility of the owner, not the horse.
Unless the person does something dumb (like turning the horse into you, yes I've done it and recently got stepped on doing it) usually it's an invasion of space. To me, invading space is dangerous and can lead to dangerous things. My horse should know to keep about an arms distance away from me, if the horse steps on me then they are inside that boundary, so yes I am going to go after them until they exit that boundary. I do happen to think that horses SHOULD be watching out for people. I want my horses to watch where their feet go, if my 1000 lbs. horse doesn't pay attention to feet, body, head etc. there can be some dangerous situations. The fact that you think this is unbelievable is a little unbelievable to me but I'm not going to criticize how you handle your horses as they are YOUR horses. Everyone trains differently and has different ideas. Just because physical punishment doesn't work with one horse, doesn't mean it won't work with another. All horses are different and must be handeled as such. That being said there are certain perameters that I set that I won't break and every horse I work with must work within them. How we go about working within them changes from horse to horse but I digress.

Basically what I'm trying to say to the OP is unless the horse is getting abused in a denotative sense then the OP should probably leave well enough alone.
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post #63 of 69 Old 06-05-2009, 07:36 AM
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one thing about posting on a forum like this is that we really don't know exactly what is going on. We are getting second hand information via the viewpoint of someone we also don't really know. To me from the info we have this young lady is giving her horse conflicting signals and possibly creating a problem horse. However her father is aware of the issue and there appear to be some other adults around. All the original poster can really do is make some friendly suggestions and talk to adults in charge and express her concerns. If real abuse is going on hopefully an adult will step in.

As for horses stepping on people, we have a bratty pony that most certainly steps on feet on purpose and I do tap her with a crop and back her up if she does it obviously on purpose. However I am very aware of where her feet are and am very careful as I know its an issue with her.
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post #64 of 69 Old 06-05-2009, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by MacabreMikolaj View Post

I really don't care HOW "little" it hurts the horse, it's still mentally damaging and eventually you WILL get the horse you smack around one to many times and goes on the fight.

Repeatedly smacking your horse either with hand or leadrope in a situation it doesn't understand scares the wits out of it. So I tend to get annoyed with people who say we "can't hurt horses" with our physical being. When we get angry, we become frightening to horses, and mental damage is just as bad as physical.

I think it's ridiculous the way we're "allowed" to treat our animals, through nothing more then blatant stupid ignorance on OUR part. Animals are not human, they need us to explain things to them, and 99% of the time when they don't obey, it's because WE are the problem. Humans are ego-maniacs and tend to forget the extreme reality that a horse is a 1000lb animal that will squash us to a pulp if we actually believe we can beat it regularly without justification (in their minds) and not have them snap. And then we blame the HORSE!
May I ask - how long have you had horses and how many have you handled? How many have you trained from day one? You seem to have a rose colored view of horses response to any type of stimulation.

You contradict yourself. Animals are not human - yet you want us to explain things to them?
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post #65 of 69 Old 06-05-2009, 09:48 AM
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I have to agree horses are not human and should not be treated as such and sometimes they need to be punished and often physical discipline is the way. In the pasture horses communicate by nipping, kicking, etc. Just like with dogs we have to treat them as dogs (think Cesar's methods) and they will be much happier. It is the same for horses. My horse was raised by a very dominant trainer. When I got her I knew would have an issue maintaining her respect. I have had issues with it off and on. Sometimes when she gets fresh I carry a crop with me when leading her and use it to tap her and make her back out of my space, etc.

We have a pony that has ground manner issues and sometimes she does get smacked (she is nippy and we are making progress unteaching this behavior) I think we all have our ways of dealing with horses. I don't think smacking constantly really works but sometimes it is necessary. My old horse used to be very bratty with her ground manners and I tried to be very calm and kind about it. One day I just hauled off and smacked her told her no more. Guess what she started to respect me after that.

Each horse and situation is different. I whole heartedly disagree with a novice youngster not being supervised or corrected when wrongly disciplining a horse, but unfortunately there is not much we can do, but hopefully the OP will speak up to adults at the barn.
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post #66 of 69 Old 06-05-2009, 10:22 PM
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I've been riding and working with horses since I was born, so almost 24 years. Thanks for asking.

I have no "rose colored" view. I am not against physical discipline in anyway. I was merely replying to the commentary of it being acceptable to smack your horse around for stepping on your foot. She didn't bother explaining in what circumstances, merely that she found it acceptable to physically discipline your horse for small infractions. I fully agree with disciplining a horse who isn't respecting your bubble, who's stepping on your feet only because he isn't paying attention to you and is becoming a danger.

My issue was with actually telling the OP to "mind her own business" because somehow as humans, we have the right to smack around our animals any way we see fit. Yes, it is a judgement call, as we aren't there, but if this child is repeatedly smacking her horse with a leadrope who's already suffered unthinkable abuse in her life, then that IS cruelty and she SHOULD work to find ways to end it.

I have worked with so many abused horses in my lifetime, it makes me absolutely sick that someone would just start hitting them for something so stupid.

And I'm not understanding whatsoever your implication that "explaining" is a human thing. Explaining does not automatically mean "talk English", it means proceed in a way that is understood by whatever party you are conveying your message to, be it horse or otherwise. That message comes in numerous forms, but traumatizing a horse that doesn't have one IOTA of a clue why it's being disciplined is just as good at cursing out someone in a foreign language. They won't understand and everyone ends up confused and frustrated, and quite possibly intimidated and scared if the other person is making threatening gestures.

I hope God tells her to smash her computer with a sledgehammer.

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post #67 of 69 Old 06-06-2009, 10:18 AM
Green Broke
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Getting back to the OP, I'd like to add that yes you have been given quite a bit of advice. However, as we have all read, one persons idea of discipline can be another's of abuse.

I haven't read any point blank examples of this abuse this girl is committing to the horse, so some examples would be helpful. Also, talking to the BO/Manager about what you are concerned about and have them observe to see if it is indeed abusive or not.

I have a few friends that can get very FIRM with discipline, firmer than I would be comfortable with, however they are not abusing the horse and it is in direct relation to the offense. They also show a great deal of affection when appropriate. Their horses are calm (that says a lot right there to me) and very well cared for and yes even loved. Firm is not abusive, but to someone else could look that way.

Of course like when disciplining children, you do not do so without control over yourself! Too easy to get carried away and cross the line. Perhaps that is what is happening with this girl? No control over her own emotional state.
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post #68 of 69 Old 06-06-2009, 08:36 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks again for the advice. My plan is to tell her to stop when I see her next and if she doesn't, I'll go talk to an adult.

By the way, We were crossing the creek after a trail ride. The horses were galloping all around across the creek and back. Regina was leading Dancer across the stream (she's scared of them from when the people at John Walker Stables dragged her in). Dancer stepped on her foot in the stream, that's when she screamed and started hitting her.
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post #69 of 69 Old 06-07-2009, 01:34 AM
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Can I just add that a horse can't see the nose on it's face? And unless it actually twists its head to the side and looks down, it can't see it's feet either? A horse being in your space is one thing, so push them away before their feet are tangling with yours. o_O

"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds."
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any advice , bad training , harsh friend , insane saddlebred , rearing problem

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