Sidepass grrr! - Page 2

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Sidepass grrr!

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    12-27-2007, 06:07 PM
Yeah she can pivot on the ground, even without a halter on. But I just want her to be able to get off leg pressure.
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    12-27-2007, 06:20 PM
So is the problem that she isn't sidepassing or that she isn't responding to your leg as well as you'd like?
    12-27-2007, 06:39 PM
^ Ya, I'm really starting to not understand the whole "question" here... sidepassing won't really teach her t move off of leg pressure.

Also, I've never had to teach a horse to sidepass from the ground. I just push them and they learn to move over!
    12-27-2007, 06:59 PM
[quote="BluMagicAlso, I've never had to teach a horse to sidepass from the ground. I just push them and they learn to move over! [/quote]

It's kind of fun to have a horse that can sidepass from the ground. Lots of neat, creative things can be done!
    12-27-2007, 11:10 PM
Also, I've never had to teach a horse to sidepass from the ground. I just push them and they learn to move over!
same here lol. I was asking how to get them to move sideways away from my leg so it's easier to teach her to spin.
    12-27-2007, 11:26 PM
"You can actually teach the spin using direct rein contact first. After that is taught, you can teach it using indirect rein contact. After they know both of those, you can go to one handed (neck reining). Spins should be taught one step at a time. Use indirect rein, sit deep in the saddle, set their weight on the hind as if going to back up (but don't actually ask them for a step backward), when weight is back, use direct rein to ask for a step in that direction. When your horse takes one step in the direction of your direct rein, release pressure, and give a reward(you should see the inside foot come out to the side - it should not go forward or back). The hind end should not take a step, but this should not be as much of a concern at first...focus on getting a step with the front end. Keep practicing until she easily takes a step when you sit back, look, turn your upper body a bit, and make direct rein contact. Then ask for two steps, then three, then 180 degrees, then 360. Keep working on getting 360 until she can do it smoothly and easily with her hind end planted (not taking steps). When you can do this on both sides, I will try to give an explanation of the indirect side.

Let me know if this is unclear in anyway and I will try to explain better. I just learned this year, so it is something that I have been spending a lot of time with I am sure there are other ways to teach it, so others might have tips as well.

Also, I believe that the 360+ degree spins are trot type stepping motion whereas the rollback is a setback on the haunches, single step canter motion facing one way - canter step from the haunches - facing 180 degrees in the other direction. Sidepassing is important to know, but you are definitely not asking for the same thing with the spin. In a sidepass, you are asking the forward and hind to move. In a spin, you are asking the front to move while keeping the hind planted.

One important thing to remember is not to focus on speed AT ALL right now. Wait until she responds softly, quietly, and smoothly 360 degrees, both directions, indirect and direct rein separately, every time, and only then start asking for increased speed. "

The above is a paste from my reply to your question in your reining post. If you do it this way, you will actually use little leg pressure at first (leg pressure is reserved for adding speed - though your knee/hip position will contribute to the maneuver). Your seat position, rein piston, and timing will be most important.

The descriptions about how to side-pass described above are pretty clear and should help you, but you really want to think about side-passing and spinning as two separate maneuvers. Maybe work on one at a time at first, and then mix them along with other maneuvers into your practices to reduce too much repetition and boredom for either you or your horses.

I am not sure it this would be how others would progress, but I would probably teach in the following order:
Move shoulders away from pressure and hips away from pressure on the ground; back from the ground; back from the saddle responding to seat/legs (on loose rein); move shoulders away from pressure and hips away from pressure from saddle; pivot on hind/pivot on forehand (one step at a time); side-pass; spin; rollback. Each of these maneuvers has its own description of how to achieve it - and may vary depending on the horses and exact training style preferred by rider.

I guess what I am getting at is based on your own knowledge and/or what you have picked up from people advising you (on this forum or elsewhere), WHAT is the first simple maneuver you want to start with. Maybe you can get a good explanation for that. Once you get that down you can ask for the next maneuver to be described. If you get all of the pieces over time - you can put them together and have the whole picture after a lot of practice. It really does work much better to break it down and then put it back together though - the horses cannot be expected to just know these things :)
    12-28-2007, 10:35 AM
Thanks AKPaintLover.

So when your asking like you said to go in that direction 1 step, then two, ect. Do you work with both sides at the same time, or stick with one side till she gets it down the move to the other?
Becuase I found out as I'm working with Janie, if you don't train them on both sides, then they can have a 'bad side'.
    12-28-2007, 11:02 AM
The way a horse's brain is wired, you have to teach both sides. They do not have the right/left brain connections that humans do.
    01-02-2008, 05:09 PM
Sara is right, it is really funny. You can have it down fabulously on one side, and then get into a big training session again trying to teach the other side. I did it so that he had the concept down okay on one side (would easily give me several steps) and then taught the other side. Then I could go between the two practicing to make the spin more complete.

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