Softening up a board.... - Page 2 - The Horse Forum
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #11 of 32 Old 02-18-2010, 09:52 PM Thread Starter
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Tampa Bay area, FL
Posts: 1,901
• Horses: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by riccil0ve View Post
DO NOT tie your horses head around. It's appalling, and completely unnecessary.
Done with baling twine and done correctly, tying a horses head around is a perfectly humane way to teach yielding to pressure. I've seen it posted by reliable posters on this forum.

I've been taught since probably the fifth grade to stretch before a workout, but after warming up. Since I tighten my cinch gradually anyway, adding some stretching in wouldn't be a problem. I'll have to figure out a way to do it sans treats.
justsambam08 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #12 of 32 Old 02-19-2010, 12:04 AM
Trained
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 8,175
• Horses: 3
Oh dear. What do you suppose might happen if you tie your horses head around and he freaks out? Broken neck, broken back, broken legs, permenently spooked horses terrified of being tied up... the list is endless.

Plus, how is that supposed to supple a horse? Woohoo look at me I can rip my horses head around and bind it there. Then I get on and he won't bend anyway. How does tying his head around condition the muscles and to strengthen and stretch?

It is the sideways equivalent of rolkur.

But hey, each to their own. Unfortunately everyone wants things NOW without putting in the weeks, months, of work. And this is the result.
Kayty is offline  
post #13 of 32 Old 02-19-2010, 03:56 AM
Trained
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Washington, USA.
Posts: 6,634
• Horses: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kayty View Post
Oh dear. What do you suppose might happen if you tie your horses head around and he freaks out? Broken neck, broken back, broken legs, permenently spooked horses terrified of being tied up... the list is endless.

Plus, how is that supposed to supple a horse? Woohoo look at me I can rip my horses head around and bind it there. Then I get on and he won't bend anyway. How does tying his head around condition the muscles and to strengthen and stretch?

It is the sideways equivalent of rolkur.

But hey, each to their own. Unfortunately everyone wants things NOW without putting in the weeks, months, of work. And this is the result.
Thanks for replying, Kayty, so I didn't have to. =]

"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds."
riccil0ve is offline  
post #14 of 32 Old 02-19-2010, 03:58 AM
Trained
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Washington, USA.
Posts: 6,634
• Horses: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by justsambam08 View Post
I've been taught since probably the fifth grade to stretch before a workout, but after warming up. Since I tighten my cinch gradually anyway, adding some stretching in wouldn't be a problem. I'll have to figure out a way to do it sans treats.
Ahem. A warmed up muscle is a warm muscle. My information is still accurate; do not stretch cold muscles.

"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds."
riccil0ve is offline  
post #15 of 32 Old 02-19-2010, 04:56 AM
Trained
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Northern Utah
Posts: 5,455
• Horses: 1
If done correctly tying a horses head around does help them figure out how to yield to pressure. The way I do it is to pull my stirrup forward and tie the rein or lead to the stirrup then when I release the stirrup the wieght of the stirrup takes the slack out of the rein. The horse can stand all day with his head straight but he has to hold the stirrup. It doesn't take more than 5 minutes and they are bending to get the relief. If something spooks them they can pull their head straight with no problem. I do very little of this. Only a couple of times on the average horse so that they can figure out what I want without having to worry about me up on their back.

In the case of the OP I think I would work alot on lateral flexion and teach teh horse to follow his nose and bend around my leg. Pull one rein to your front pocket and hold light but steady pressure on it untill his feet stop moving and he puts a tiny bit of slack in the reins then release completely. Do it a few times on one side then switch to the other. Don't give up and hang in there for as long as it takes. If he doesn't seem to be looking for relief increase the pressure a little. Once he is fairly supple that way do alot of direction changes. I hate to ride in circles so I wouldn't do too many of those but figure eights and spirals will help alot.

There's nothing like the Rockies in the springtime... Nothing like the freedom in the air... And there ain't nothing better than draggin calves to the fire and there's nothing like the smell of burning hair. -Brenn Hill
kevinshorses is offline  
post #16 of 32 Old 02-19-2010, 10:20 AM
Trained
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Washington, USA.
Posts: 6,634
• Horses: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinshorses View Post
If done correctly tying a horses head around does help them figure out how to yield to pressure. The way I do it is to pull my stirrup forward and tie the rein or lead to the stirrup then when I release the stirrup the wieght of the stirrup takes the slack out of the rein. The horse can stand all day with his head straight but he has to hold the stirrup. It doesn't take more than 5 minutes and they are bending to get the relief. If something spooks them they can pull their head straight with no problem. I do very little of this. Only a couple of times on the average horse so that they can figure out what I want without having to worry about me up on their back.
But WHY!? When you can simply get in the saddle and using the reins to encourage your horse to bend to the inside and to the outside? WHY when you can simply do carrot stretches after a ride to loosen up the neck and make them more limber? How do you teach your dog to lie down? By ripping his feet out from under him? Sure, he may learn, but he can also learn by simply placing a treat on the ground with your hand over and not giving it to him until he lays down. It takes more time, but in the end, you have a better adapted animal with more pleasant experiences. Training takes TIME. Tying their head is a quick fix, and even then, how are they supposed to associate a tied head to the cues from a rider on their back to do the same thing? A true bend takes more than bringing a rein to your knee. In fact, your inside rein should be hardly anything more than decoration.

I usually agree with you Kevin, but in this case, I most definitely do not when there are other, better methods to get a better result.

"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds."
riccil0ve is offline  
post #17 of 32 Old 02-19-2010, 10:26 AM Thread Starter
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Tampa Bay area, FL
Posts: 1,901
• Horses: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinshorses View Post
If done correctly tying a horses head around does help them figure out how to yield to pressure. The way I do it is to pull my stirrup forward and tie the rein or lead to the stirrup then when I release the stirrup the wieght of the stirrup takes the slack out of the rein. The horse can stand all day with his head straight but he has to hold the stirrup. It doesn't take more than 5 minutes and they are bending to get the relief. If something spooks them they can pull their head straight with no problem. I do very little of this. Only a couple of times on the average horse so that they can figure out what I want without having to worry about me up on their back.
Thank you kevin. I would have had to go find a post by Riosdad otherwise!

I really do object to that being referred to as the "sideways version of rollkur", the only thing it would force him to do is use his brain and figure out how to make himself more comfortable. If he would rather stand there and be uncomfortable, he could do that, or he could just turn his head a smidge and release the pressure. I was not talking about cranking his nose back to his hip, I was talking about the equivalent of a direct-reined turn. Only with baling twine. And with me on the ground.

Also kevin, thats exactly what I'm looking for. Lateral flexion ground exercises other than carrot stretches. I want to be able to get on him and do the figure eights, but it would be an "S" with a straight line down the side. I already have the book I mentioned before, and it does have some nice suggestions for getting him stretchy and getting him back into shape. So we'll see how that goes.
justsambam08 is offline  
post #18 of 32 Old 02-19-2010, 10:29 AM
mls
Trained
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: MN
Posts: 5,464
• Horses: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by riccil0ve View Post
But WHY!? When you can simply get in the saddle and using the reins to encourage your horse to bend to the inside and to the outside? Training takes TIME. Tying their head is a quick fix, and even then, how are they supposed to associate a tied head to the cues from a rider on their back to do the same thing? A true bend takes more than bringing a rein to your knee. In fact, your inside rein should be hardly anything more than decoration.
I agree. Tying is a quick and not necessarily correct fix. In this case the horse is stiff. Tying him around will bend him but not supple him. Part of the stiff process that needs to be worked out is also getting the horse to step under. I don't see how tying a horse to look at the saddle or surcingle for any length of time teachs that. Working in hand or riding allows the interaction and the give and take.

Also agree with the trot circles and transistions. Walk, circle, trot, circle.
mls is offline  
post #19 of 32 Old 02-19-2010, 10:37 AM Thread Starter
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Tampa Bay area, FL
Posts: 1,901
• Horses: 1
He does track up under himself already quite nicely, he almost completely oversteps his fronts with his hinds, but he'll probably never be able to completely because he has a long back.
justsambam08 is offline  
post #20 of 32 Old 02-19-2010, 12:14 PM
Trained
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Northern Utah
Posts: 5,455
• Horses: 1
Sometimes you need to get the bend BEFORE you get in the saddle. I t helps alot when your horse can give to the rein before you get on. The way I do it with the stirrup, the horse starts to follow its nose and bending really soft. I invite anybody that thinks it's unnecessary to try it and see the results. I don't tie to the D ring, I tie to the stirrup and it does the exact same thing as pulling the rein from the saddle. They can take as much rein as they want but the relief won't come untill they flex enough to drop the stirrup. If you want to get on a horse that doesn't bend then go ahead you will probably get away with it. I have gotten in bad situations that way enough that I choose not to get on a horse unless I have some bend in them. Some horses I can stand next to and get plenty of bend and I'll do it that way but some horses do better when they figure it out on their own. You have to know your horse and decide what will work well for you. Sometimes I will tie a stirrup up and go catch another horse then switch sides while I saddle the new horse. I think if you try it you will find that it is not cruel or ineffective. The horse only has one thing to think about instead of worrying about where I am and what I'm going to be doing next.

There's nothing like the Rockies in the springtime... Nothing like the freedom in the air... And there ain't nothing better than draggin calves to the fire and there's nothing like the smell of burning hair. -Brenn Hill
kevinshorses is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Horse Forum forums, you must first register.

Already have a Horse Forum account?
Members are allowed only one account per person at the Horse Forum, so if you've made an account here in the past you'll need to continue using that account. Please do not create a new account or you may lose access to the Horse Forum. If you need help recovering your existing account, please Contact Us. We'll be glad to help!

New to the Horse Forum?
Please choose a username you will be satisfied with using for the duration of your membership at the Horse Forum. We do not change members' usernames upon request because that would make it difficult for everyone to keep track of who is who on the forum. For that reason, please do not incorporate your horse's name into your username so that you are not stuck with a username related to a horse you may no longer have some day, or use any other username you may no longer identify with or care for in the future.



User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.


Old Thread Warning
This thread is more than 90 days old. When a thread is this old, it is often better to start a new thread rather than post to it. However, If you feel you have something of value to add to this particular thread, you can do so by checking the box below before submitting your post.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Softening and rounding angelsgrace Dressage 17 01-11-2010 10:44 PM
Softening New Leather? apc11196 Horse Tack and Equipment 26 01-05-2010 09:51 PM
Softening leather split reins ridesapaintedpony Horse Tack and Equipment 3 08-15-2009 03:48 PM
leather softening in oil?? horseyhmg27 Horse Tack and Equipment 13 08-15-2009 03:22 PM
Softening...? BluMagic Horse Training 17 04-05-2008 08:53 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome