some advice needed!

Hey guys this is my first post and I'm just looking for some ideas, concepts and a little guidence.

I have a paint who I got last year, he will be 4 this spring. I found him on kijiji free to a good home. Long story short his previous owner had him for sale, two girls showed up with a trailer and tried for hours to load him. He finally got ticked (I would too) and reared up. It was was winter he flipped and fractured his withers. She spent 6 months doctoring him up. He has been given the okay to be ridden by the vet.

That's a little of his history. She trained him on ground work using parelli method. Now I have experince training horses, I have two yearlings and a two going on 3 year old. They are great. I have no issues with them what so ever, well behaved and mannered.

This paint however; total different story. He walks all over me. He reared several times, sent my farrier flying twice. He reared on the lunge line on me. I own 6 horses and none have ever reared on me... And I have wild brood mares. He gets so ticked off and pushy even when I am grooming him. I had him saddled in the fall and on his back at a walk few times, and if no one is infront "pretending to lead" he won't walk on, I tried circles. He will move away from my leg cues but only side ways. I ask for a walk and those ears go back, he swishes his tale and starts to raise his head. I don't want him going up in fear he may flip again and than those withers are done!

I am think of taking him back to ground manners but he just seems so cranky when I try.

I know to get him on the trailer when I took him the lady called few of her friends to do a stud pull (we tried again for hours to load him calm and easy but was not working) she said he be going to the auction if I didn't take him. Well stud pull was a sucess (when I moved him on his 3rd trailer ride only took an hour to load him) however he sliced his lower leg open... Yes something I regret now not wrapping those legs and believe me I learned. Well right when I got him home I had the vet come and the bandaging process began. I tried to wrap his leg when the sedation was worn off for a bandage change and he booted several times. I understand fact it hurt. But he just went boot after boot every time I attempted. For my saftey I began to twitch him if he was going to kick at bandage time, which he did everytime. I didn't get to bond with him before I had to be nurse and touch him in a blind spot painful area. I'm not too sure if this could be some of my problem with him.

And yes if anyone suggesting to get a trainer I am looking into that, just in the mean time I would like to work with him and get our relationship established.
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First of all -- "Welcome".

If your horse has had his withers broken and is sound to ride with a saddle, he is the first horse that I have known that healed up without back problems and that can carry a saddle comfortably. Are you sure that the saddle does not bother him? Will he longe and work in a round pen OK while saddled?

If you want a horse to know when to move forward and how to guide when he does, you should ground drive him. Teach him that a smooch and a slap on the butt with the long reins means to go forward now. Teach him that he should guide with a pull on the right or the left long lines. Then, when you are on his back, he will ride right off with a smooch and will guide.

I have trained many horses over the years that have been injured. [I have not trained a horse that has had its withers broken.] I've had horses that were beaten to their knees and horses that have been turned over in trailer wrecks and had to be cut out of the trailer. I never treated them any differently than ordinary green horses. They have to be treated the same and they have to mind the same. They have to be trained to tie solidly. They need to have their feet handled. They need to respect their handler.

Are you sure that you are not cutting him a lot of slack because of his background? If you do, it will come back and bite you. He has to have the same good manners of any other horse.

I'm going to ask a really odd question - I assume he has been gelded? Not cryptoid...... ?

Thanks guys!

I was thinking taking him back to ground driving this spring. I broke my ankle (not due to him or horses) and off for a bit.

He does carry the saddle fine and longes pretty good most days, I had a boarder on him while I lunged and he did great.
No sign of being sore. No lameness and he did this at a w/t/c

Honestly its like he is bypolar. One day he amazing and listens great, the next he just ticked off and an arse.

The only thing with his withers is he is pretty flat. I talked to the tack shop and did some research and bought him a memory foam saddle pad pretty thick.

He is gelded! I don't need no more babies after rescuing a few wild broodies.

I think I maybe cutting him some slack due to his history and knowing he a rearer. But due to his "bypolar" days if I try pick up a foot he ticked and swishing tail. Try a second time and he starts giving little cues like do it again you will be sorry.

I am not too sure if maybe its his previous training and how to go about changing it. I read same bad things about parelli methods or maybe I need to be trained to fully understand them and use them so he understands me.

Just many thoughts and little lost. Personally I belive in things work different for all horses, and well I tried the pressure game with him on his side as peralli states and he fought me whole time and got cranky
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I think he might just be getting cranky to have you leave him alone. He may have you figured out that he just has to swish his tail or "get cranky" and you leave him alone.

I think you may have to work through your fears of this horse.

I think that's an issue as well...in mind I think if you break something on me than your not getting fed because I can't work! Belive me ei sucks right now!


I love him, have no intentions of sending him anywhere long term.

I've had a boarders horse who I train rear one me before. He did it a few times as a 2 year old and than finally got it that it was not allowed no matter what and has not done it.

This guy to me it seems gets crankier and crankier as I try to correct the behavior. I don't belive in beating my horses what to ever or using objects, but with my hand I will give tap to and tell them enough. This guy seem to fuel his fire more. I tried walking him and than trying again same thing. I try the tug on the lead and he raises his head higher and higher in a jump state. I don't reef on the lead but a few light tugs. Tried a stud chain and that's not even safe try with him again.

Even to deworm he he has reared! That's fun chore to attempt.

I'm usually pretty stuborn and belive that I am boss, that being said I want a horse to be willing to do what I ask and if possible enjoy to be forced out of fear.
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Sorry spelling about spelling on my blackberry. Last sentence is to be if possible enjoy not to be forced out of fear.
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You are fueling his fire by letting him get away with it. He needs to know you mean business. If my horse is being a brat, she gets pounded, not tapped. I know she could take me out in an instance but I will never let her in on that secret. I'm not afraid of correcting her and hurting her feelings. I'm more afraid of her hurting me if I don't discipline her. Next time he appears to be cranky, put him on the lunge line and make him work.

To be honest, you have to stop babying him. He will be happier and you will have a horse you can safely be around and enjoy.

As far as the worming goes, try putting apple sauce in the old wormer tube and giving it to him every once in awhile. He'll learn to love it when you come at him with "the tube."

You just answered all of your own questions right here ---
He can swish his tail and threaten you and you 'back off'. He is training you. Not you training him.

If you keep letting him call the shots and let him be in charge, he is NEVER going to behave for you. He already knows that he can threaten to throw a fit and you quit asking. You obediently back off.

The tail is wagging the dog here!!! Get a backbone, wade in there and make this ill-mannered bugger mind you. You can do it. You may not be bigger or meaner, but I have faith that you are smarter.

The tap was more so people don't misunderstand what I mean if I use the word smack or hit. I belive in natural comunication and body language. I just didn't want a billion people trying to twist my words saying I beat my horse. I never leave marks use objects or weapons just my hand.

I have not tried able sauce yet but that will be my next tool, thank you.

I probably just needed to hear stop babying him. I knew some ways I did.

Thank you! This spring hopefully I can put the boot down.

What got me looking for advice was my boarder holding him today so I caan see him but he was an arse. And I thought with this time off in a cast let's see what ideas and concepts others may have for me to try.
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