Somethings I want to just get out in one post... - Page 3
   

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Somethings I want to just get out in one post...

This is a discussion on Somethings I want to just get out in one post... within the Horse Training forums, part of the Training Horses category

     
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        02-13-2010, 08:04 AM
      #21
    Green Broke
    No, no I understand. Horses are dangerous and general and any added on to that is serious. Thanks for bringing it up cause I never even thought of one.

    I will most likely be making posts once Chance comes out of her lameness streak :)
         
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        02-13-2010, 08:31 AM
      #22
    Started
    Hope she gets better. I love the video. The only thing I worried about was her stepping on the lead rope and breaking her halter.
         
        02-13-2010, 08:34 AM
      #23
    Showing
    Please bear with me, I'm trying to catch up on all this and only want to get the facts right; the way they were presented - please don't get defensive.

    You have been riding for ~2 years, you've had a "dangerous" horse for about that time and this is your first horse. During that time she has progressed to where she is only trying to hurt someone mostly during the winter months which leads you to believe that it is a physical thing and not her nature.

    You were part of the problem until you learned better which means that you have been "training" this horse for about a year - again, this is your first horse and your first attempt at training. Again - don't get defensive.

    All that being the case, and no matter what you feel, you are out of your depth with Chance. This isn't to say that there won't be improvements, only that you are far to inexperienced to take it to the level that this horse needs. You have no training yourself, only what you get from a forum, from reading, and from videos. I have to agree with Wild Spot to a point. Regardless of how you may protest, it is only ego and not a true understanding of what Chance needs that keeps you from selling her to the proper home.

    After 30 years of owing/training horse (and a life time of riding - because there is a difference), I know when I am the wrong person to be training a particular horse. That I am not going to get this horse to the level that he can be, that he needs someone who is better adapt at handling his problems. I don't let ego get in the way of allowing a horse be all that he is capable of.

    I need to agree with what has been said, that for you to progress as a trainer, you need to be trained and that Chance is the wrong horse to begin with.

    Take this as advise - not criticism
         
        02-13-2010, 08:55 AM
      #24
    Green Broke
    Silly - Thanks :) I don't worry about lead ropes. She knows when she steps on it how to get her self unstuck. She's done it with bridles 2. I mean I can see where it can be dangerous, she use to freak out but I worked with it and now its just kinda second nature to her.

    Iridehorses- you got almost all teh facts wrong. Lol. Not getting defensive here, promise. Only clearing stuff up. She's my 3rd horse technically 4th, I've been around horses for 8-9 years. I trained my first horse to canter undersaddle, I semi broke my 2nd horse intill she got sold from underneath me, and I broke chance myself from day 1 to ride [she was already broke to saddle]. I also have trained my friends horse for her while she is in teh air force which he has come a LONG ways since when I first got on him. He was a spooky prancy flightly thing and now he's nice calm and level headed and can go out on trails alone on the rode. Soon enough im going for a job in training horses. So Ill learn a lot from that as well :)

    I do believe whats going on is a physical things because if you can tell by videos she's VERY laid back and calm. For her to snap is usually rare. Unless of course its in teh winter. Even this winter its a lot less then what it use to be. She's progressed A LOT from when I first got her, she would bolt teh second you put your butt in teh saddle to rear every step she took. She also use to drag you out in teh pasture when you try and catch her etc etc etc lol I could go on. Now she practically trots to me, jumps small 2' courses, you can do just about ANYTHING with her [standing on her, crawling under her, sliding off her] She can now be ridden somewhat bridleless or just with a halter. I've also gotten it to where she's very senative to cues undersaddle, and it takes barely anything to get her to go teh gait you ask. She now can walk-canter as well :) she's a very willing to please type mare and will put her WHOLE heart into something that you ask of her, and that's why I believe its physical. I just can't wait to find out for sure.
         
        02-13-2010, 09:52 AM
      #25
    Showing
    Well I sure did get quite a few things wrong LOL- but that was the impression that I and, perhaps, other readers may have gotten.

    I'm not sure that it makes a difference with Chance but I am glad that you are going to work with a trainer to improve your skills.
         
        02-13-2010, 09:58 AM
      #26
    Weanling
    Do you have a trainer? Alot of what you say are Chance's problems seem like they would be dealt with swiftly and without issue by someone that is a well-seasoned horse trainer, as they would expect to see those things in re-training a horse, and it unwarrants too much mention from them, because it is settled before the issue has a chance to snowball further. Alot of the behaviour I have encountered while training my horse troubles and frustrates me initially, and then my trainer comes out and 98% of the time I'm doing something incorrectly or she handles my horse and straightens it out and we move on. I too rode horses for 9 years, but owning my first untrained horse was like greek to me - until I found a very valuable translator, my trainer. In fact, riding was such a technical thing for me, I rarely thought about the mental processes of a horse, I was self-engulfed, even when riding greenies. To be on the ground or training undersaddle, that truly makes you accountable for your actions and how they effect the life and learning path of a horse when its in such an impressionable phase, rather then riding a horse that knows the MO and can deal with your imperfections in seat and cue coordination. Sometimes, we just can't do that on our own. I'm not saying sell the horse and move on to a 15 year old 4H pony. I guess I'm saying that you need someone that is going to force you out of this caretaker-child relationship and push you towards a healthier teacher-pupil relationship, so that you don't have to ride a ticking timebomb for the rest of the years you own him. We owe it to our horses to admit we can do better, especially if we are basically backyard trainers. We have to keep our head over water because without the help we'll just, well you know, ride on with the analogy, haha.
         
        02-13-2010, 10:49 AM
      #27
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Seahorseys    
    Do you have a trainer? Alot of what you say are Chance's problems seem like they would be dealt with swiftly and without issue by someone that is a well-seasoned horse trainer, as they would expect to see those things in re-training a horse, and it unwarrants too much mention from them, because it is settled before the issue has a chance to snowball further. Alot of the behaviour I have encountered while training my horse troubles and frustrates me initially, and then my trainer comes out and 98% of the time I'm doing something incorrectly or she handles my horse and straightens it out and we move on. I too rode horses for 9 years, but owning my first untrained horse was like greek to me - until I found a very valuable translator, my trainer. In fact, riding was such a technical thing for me, I rarely thought about the mental processes of a horse, I was self-engulfed, even when riding greenies. To be on the ground or training undersaddle, that truly makes you accountable for your actions and how they effect the life and learning path of a horse when its in such an impressionable phase, rather then riding a horse that knows the MO and can deal with your imperfections in seat and cue coordination. Sometimes, we just can't do that on our own. I'm not saying sell the horse and move on to a 15 year old 4H pony. I guess I'm saying that you need someone that is going to force you out of this caretaker-child relationship and push you towards a healthier teacher-pupil relationship, so that you don't have to ride a ticking timebomb for the rest of the years you own him. We owe it to our horses to admit we can do better, especially if we are basically backyard trainers. We have to keep our head over water because without the help we'll just, well you know, ride on with the analogy, haha.

    I have to say that I agree with this !
         
        02-13-2010, 11:02 AM
      #28
    Green Broke
    Dont worry about it :) Iridehorses, I can't wait to work with these people.
         
        02-13-2010, 11:09 AM
      #29
    Yearling
    I was trying to post something else but I ran out of time :
    I think that having the vet out is a good choice then you can rule out anything physical or hormones that may be affecting her.
    Horses are always trying to tell us something and it is our job to listen , the vet could find something with a blood test or exam that as owners we don't see.
    Good luck , keep us updated
         
        02-13-2010, 11:12 AM
      #30
    Started
    Iridehorses- just commenting on the quality of your post, but that was very well written.

    I agree that Chance might not be the "best horse" for Michele at this point, she's very challenging, HOWEVER I do feel that even if the match isn't "right" from the get-go, that can be formed. It's all up to the person in the end....to become who that individual horse needs and to learn everything they can to make the process quicker and safer. A lot of people refuse/don't want to change for the horse, so they sell it. Me personally, I LOVE a challenge...a challenge of my knowledge, timing, feel, understanding, skill, all that! That's one of the reasons I get my hands on as many horses as I can! Lol. You don't get better if you keep working with "easy" horses, BUT there is a time where moving to a pretty challenging horse might not be the best idea...yet. With my horse now, was he too much for me? Probably. Did I know what to do with all of his extreme behaviors? Nope. Was I scared some times? You bet. Did I give up on him? Absolutely not. That's what everyone else did in his past, they gave up on him, said he was dangerous and vicious and wanted to put him down....all because they didn't think outside their box and search for better ways to work with him. I do not regret anything I've gone through with him....all the tears, all the doubt, all the fear I had, all the challenges he gave me....I look back now and think "Look at all the learning opportunities he has given me already!" I have absolutely grown as a horsewoman, and now my horse and I are having a blast, he is so playful and expressive and proud and we are doing some amazing things together.

    I went off on my little story to drive home the point that if the person is willing to change, willing to learn, and willing to seek help when needed (which I did, I e-mailed my favorite PP all the time! Lol) and above all become a dedicated student, relationships with challenging horses like Chance and my guy CAN turn out amazing where you have outside people saying, "That horse was ever ____? Wow, you'd never be able to tell." I've had people say that about my guy. Michele needs to do a lot of things in order to be successful with Chance...but she knows this, I've talked to her about it before ;) lol!
         

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