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Somethings I want to just get out in one post...

5K views 43 replies 22 participants last post by  HorsesAreForever 
#1 ·
I really wanted to get this out in ONE post.. because I feel like everyone is getting mixed info and going off others, or maybe old posts when I was angry/frsuterated. But hers the full story basically. :)

For those who want to bring up Chance in most of my posts :? I KNOW I've had problems with her and still do, I dont deny that. But everyone who rides her mentions how smart she is and how much horse she is [her and her 14.3H self :lol:]. I get complimented on well we work together when shes being good. Shes a hot breed, and was abused/neglected from the day she was born till I got her even a few weeks afterwards..by me. I was still EXTREMELY unexperienced, and scared by this mare.. and I was still at the barn who was abusing her.. so they way they told me to lunge her and lead her around was by 2-3 chains in her mouth..it was to teh point where she tounge bled when lungeing.. but to them it was teh only way to keep her 'in control' I hold NO pride in that.. I make mistakes, everyone does. Im not saying im perfect in anyway or know everything. But I HAVE learned a lot from the horses ive worked with, the type of horse barns I've been at.

I DO get defensive, not making excuses here, but I've only ever gotten hell for owning Chance. Even my mom is asking me to sell her because of how many times she just "snaps". But now knowing there could be something physical changes the whole story.

When she does "snap" It is ONLY in teh winter.. I think thats the part people are missing. In teh summer she show ready basically, 100% trust worthy. In the winter she turns into a spooky flightly horse. But to do what I have in teh warmer months is what keeps me wanting to work with her.. because I never thought i'd EVER get to where I have with her. Shes 6 years old and only been broke a year and a half. I know I can get her past that huge road block.. I've gotten her past most of the stuff shes run into. Im sure others could do it faster then I could but I want to be the one to finish her. Keeping the safety in mind of course.

I have reached out to people in the past to help, barn owners, trainers, friends.... she was only called names, told me to put her down and that she was worth nothing. They only made her worse, so I decided to stop trying to have others do it and figure it out myself... People who see her now in my videos.. are absolutely amazed and doesnt believe its the same horse.

Pictures to show what I can and have done with her[riding wise] IF your interesting.
http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee93/lolwtfmichele/jumps.jpg
http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee93/lolwtfmichele/069.jpg
http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee93/lolwtfmichele/009.jpg
http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee93/lolwtfmichele/Picture2-4.png
http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee93/lolwtfmichele/DSCN0300.jpg
http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee93/lolwtfmichele/Westernpony.jpg


So YES we've had some down, but A LOT of ups to make up for it.. so dont just base me on the bad, most of the posts ive made were defensive.. and based on frusteration... Ive made some posts mostly when I was angry and frusterated.. only because my mom wouldnt listen and only would want her gone.. so I posted only to get things out ... but I forgot to post teh postivie.. so thats my fault.

So go ahead and reply :) I hope, maybe, I cleared some of it up????
 
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#2 ·
Wow it sounds like you two have been through alot! Congrats to you though for sticking it out. I firmly believe that if you don't give up on her it will only solidify your relationship. Keep it in mind that yes she is a mare and will be tempermental from time to time. That is normal and natural. Continue to work your respect level with this mare and I am sure you will have many more years of gratitude and respect with her. We all have good days and bad days with our horses and in my opinion I think more horses need owners like you and I that don't give up every time there is a hick-up in our training. Remember that every day that you interact with her the both of you learn something. Continue to ask questions and continue learning. I like your post! I too sometimes think that our "stuck" moments will lead to selling my horses but my love for them prevent that from happening. My philosophy is that I need to change what I am doing to make a positive change. If I have to take the time to research a better way, I do. Horses are not wrong, we as the dominant species are wrong in what we are trying to communicate. Hope this helps............. : )
 
#3 ·
Thank you so much Tina! :) Really nice reply.
I firmly believe that if you don't give up on her it will only solidify your relationship.
I also believe that, it seems the more I worked with her and got her over her little problems the stronger we are as a team. Which in teh end thats a reward in itself knowing where she came from.

I've said I was gonna sell her millions of times but it just takes a few hours to realize that theres no where I can let her go. To me it would feel like I put all the hard work into it for nothing. Maybe thats just me. I also cant stand people who sell horses only because they need something to get them further... idk that bugs me.
 
#5 ·
I also cant stand people who sell horses only because they need something to get them further... idk that bugs me.
TOTALLY off topic but...to me that makes sense. Some people aren't meant to do certain things, and some people aren't meant to do them very well. Same with horses. You can't hold having high aspirations against people!

But I digress....I agree with Lis, get a body protector! I want one myself but don't have the $$ right now. I have a few comments on Chance and those pictures, but I'll hold off for this one. Over all I think if you stick with it, you may be able to make her better, but there is also the possibility that this is the best she's going to be. Good luck though!
 
#6 ·
Everyone makes a mistake that they regret, but a horse is willing to forget and look into the future. It's great to know that you have kept trying not giving up. If others still knock you down, just prove them wrong with how wonderful your horse and you are coming along. =]
 
#7 ·
I think lately you've done a lot of growing....mentally and emotionally. Learning is rarely comfortable or nice, especially when it comes to self-analysis. You've had some huge bumps in the road with Chance but I truly believe that if you commit to her, and to learning, growing and progressing, you will be just fine with her :) Just stay focused (but in the proper way! lol) and stay true to her and what you know works....and I'm always here if you need to talk :)
 
#8 ·
Me and my horse have almost been through the same thing. She was abused/neglected. I know some of the things I've done to her can be considered abuse, but I just didn't know. And then people tell you a million different things. My horse acts the same way in Winter too. All I can say is stick with it, she will get better.
 
#11 · (Edited)
The best thing about horses is that they forgive.. they dont dont ever forget. But I see what your saying :D I've already proved a barn full of people wrong about Chance but I think I still have more work a head of me.

SpiritHorse - You've been a BIG part of that. You gave me quite a few P4's that I needed, that goes for Jenny too LOL :)

Jiblet - I was in teh same position - I had NO idea that what I was doing to chance was considered abuse because I was around these people so long it became the normal thing. But Im glad I learned differently and found a lot softer and kinder ways to work with my horse in turn we are both happy. Thanks for the reply :)

Solon - Ive seen where thats happened, someone at my barn is going through that now and its kinda sad.. I thought that was the case at first but when Chance puts her head in my chest and just stays there half falling asleep.. I know theres deffinatly something there. Chance is one of the less affectionate mares so when she does show it I will drop everything I had planned just to enjoy it when she puts herself out there. I can be sitting on the ground in front of her and she would just hover her head right above me with her chin on my head just resting. When she sees me across the pasture and will stop eatting just to watch and see where im going and if I look like im coming to her, she goes out of her way and comes TO me. Its a great feeling know that she wants to be there. Also when ever she spooks on ground like if we are walking in a new area or a scary shadow moves weirdly she will stop right in her tracks no matter how "scared" she is to not run over me. Or if she really cant stand still then she will go around me. I think that in general takes a lot of a horse to think about the human even when they feel there life could be in danger. When people flat out tell me that Chance would probably fall apart if I wasnt around.. means something.

But there are also times she could care less about me. Sometimes she sees me in teh pasture.. looks up .. and goes right back to her food... well thats what she thinks about me today :P

That just got me thinking.
 
#12 ·
I'm sorry but she wouldn't fall apart. I've seen horses in our barn go from one loving owner to the next. Horses adapt. It's what they do. It sounds like you are trying to work it out. But you've really got to take a good look if people close to you are telling you something's not right with the horse. They don't want you to get hurt.
 
#13 ·
I have at least 2 stories showing that its a possibility. Also seeing how shes worked with other people in saddle makes me wonder. Shes done things to other riders she never even attempted with me. I mean other people CAN ride her safely, if there not trying to conqure her.. idk if you understand what I mean?? She will do anything in the world for you if your willing to be fair and understanding about it.. not shove her over the cliff when shes just brave enough to look over.

Im sure she would adapt no doubt.. but the mental damage that would probably do to her. Shes already gone through enough of that. If it does come time to sell like its forced.. it would be a long thought out decision. LOL I have been called over protective but I guess it came with the package.

No ones really told me something wasn't right. Take that back, I mean yes in the begining people were telling me to put her down, to sell her etc. My mom is still on that side because she she only looks at the past and refuses to think Chance will change. People who see her now encourage me to keep at it .. and that Ive come to far to just stop now. etc. Im determined to bring her over this one last steep hill. Im pretty sure once I get her there we wont have much else to worry about.

OH and about the body protector thing, I am seriously considering one for jumping.
 
#15 ·
I've already proved a barn full of people wrong about Chance
I get complimented on well we work together when shes being good.
I know I can get her past that huge road block..
Im sure others could do it faster then I could but I want to be the one to finish her.
Pictures to show what I can and have done with her[riding wise]
To me it would feel like I put all the hard work into it for nothing.
The only thing I got out of this thread was the overwhelming feeling that you are only doing this to 'prove' something. You want to stick it to the people who told you that you couldn't do it.

That is NOT the right mentality to have when training a horse, especially one with issues like Chance. That attitude is how people get hurt.

I seriously cringe when I see one of your posts now. I just know it will be the same things over again. It's like a car crash - I know I won't like what I see but I can't look away. I just hope it doesn't end up like a car crash.

I also cant stand people who sell horses only because they need something to get them further...
That's funny, I can't stand people who keep a horse out of pride, ego, or stubbornness. I also can't stand people who refuse to sell horses to someone more capable when they can't handle the problems they have. I can't stand the fact they don't understand it is doing the horse NO FAVOURS.

but the mental damage that would probably do to her.
And my only thoughts on this are:

1. RUBBISH.

2. EGO, EGO, EGO.

No horse will turn into a quivering, broken, mentally damaged wreck from being sold to a well picked home. They DO turn into mentally damaged wrecks when people refuse to acknowledge that they aren't the one most suitable and find the person who is suitable.
 
#16 ·
Don't just get it for jumping, get it for just riding. I wore mine when I was just going in the school especially when I was loaning my second loan horse because he wasn't completely safe but I even wore it when I was on the old horses that would rather die before letting you hurt yourself because things go wrong and if Chance is worse in the winter then you need one.
 
#17 ·
WILDSPOT- that was a brilliant post and I agree with everything you said completly.

I have sold a few horses due to growing out of them ability wise. I like knowing that they are going to teach someone else what they've taught me.

Also, a couple of years ago I met this lady, she had this beautiful black horse, we became friends of some sort and she offered for me to ride him.

She told me how she aquired this beautiful yet damaged horse.. through an auction where she watched him suffer at the hands of unforgiving people.

I started riding this horse and I adored him but as time went by I decided he was just too dangerous, he got worse and worse and his owner tried everything to help him. No such luck.

The day his fate was decided was the day he lunged at her and ripped right through her shirt and through the skin on her chest.

There was no more black horse after that day. He went to greener pastures where there will be no more suffering for him or the people around him.

Just something to think about. The things you want may not always be right.
 
#18 ·
Wild-spot... The reason I posted this was because I wanted to clear things up about Chance because I know a lot of people were just going off what others had were commenting not actually looking at what I was saying. I didnt say she would turn into a quivering mess.. you kinda over exagerated what I said. But im not gonna sit here and try and convince you. She would adapt in time im sure with teh right owner who would be willing to take time with her and learn how she works rather just look at her as any other horse they can do anything with, thats wat will get you in trouble with her. I mean once you get past her shell she will let you do anything with her honestly. I can lead her by her tail, legs, mane chin LOL Slide of any part of her.. and stand on her and like an amazing horse she is she will tolerate it as long as I want her 2. Shes become a great horse compared to when I first got her. I wont forget that.

So people who are saying I cant handle her ... she was 1000x worse when I got her and I was the only one who could handle her except for this acception of this one man who came out to the pasture with me to get her because she was bolting when you would put the lead rope on and I needed someone strong to actually stand there ground and not get dragged LOL But other then that I did most of the work on her because everyone else only made her worse.

I mean I rode this mare bridleless lol i have a clip as well.


Sally- Lol well it might not be the best thing.
Lis- You make a good point. Ill look into one.
 
#19 ·
Kudos to you for learning and improving and communicating with the horse. it's so rewarding to actually start to understand a horse and be able to have the horse understand you. the team work makes all the work work worthwhile.

To me, the finished product is not as important as how you get there. and it doesn't matter how long it takes, because it's an on-going learning experience always. and that is the best thing of all.

So don't let others discourage you, as long as your relationship with this horse makes you happy
 
#23 ·
Please bear with me, I'm trying to catch up on all this and only want to get the facts right; the way they were presented - please don't get defensive.

You have been riding for ~2 years, you've had a "dangerous" horse for about that time and this is your first horse. During that time she has progressed to where she is only trying to hurt someone mostly during the winter months which leads you to believe that it is a physical thing and not her nature.

You were part of the problem until you learned better which means that you have been "training" this horse for about a year - again, this is your first horse and your first attempt at training. Again - don't get defensive.

All that being the case, and no matter what you feel, you are out of your depth with Chance. This isn't to say that there won't be improvements, only that you are far to inexperienced to take it to the level that this horse needs. You have no training yourself, only what you get from a forum, from reading, and from videos. I have to agree with Wild Spot to a point. Regardless of how you may protest, it is only ego and not a true understanding of what Chance needs that keeps you from selling her to the proper home.

After 30 years of owing/training horse (and a life time of riding - because there is a difference), I know when I am the wrong person to be training a particular horse. That I am not going to get this horse to the level that he can be, that he needs someone who is better adapt at handling his problems. I don't let ego get in the way of allowing a horse be all that he is capable of.

I need to agree with what has been said, that for you to progress as a trainer, you need to be trained and that Chance is the wrong horse to begin with.

Take this as advise - not criticism
 
#24 · (Edited)
Silly - Thanks :) I dont worry about lead ropes. She knows when she steps on it how to get her self unstuck. Shes done it with bridles 2. I mean I can see where it can be dangerous, she use to freak out but I worked with it and now its just kinda second nature to her.

Iridehorses- you got almost all teh facts wrong. lol. Not getting defensive here, promise. Only clearing stuff up. Shes my 3rd horse technically 4th, I've been around horses for 8-9 years. I trained my first horse to canter undersaddle, I semi broke my 2nd horse intill she got sold from underneath me, and I broke chance myself from day 1 to ride [she was already broke to saddle]. I also have trained my friends horse for her while she is in teh air force which he has come a LONG ways since when I first got on him. He was a spooky prancy flightly thing and now hes nice calm and level headed and can go out on trails alone on the rode. Soon enough im going for a job in training horses. So Ill learn a lot from that as well :)

I do believe whats going on is a physical things because if you can tell by videos shes VERY laid back and calm. For her to snap is usually rare. Unless of course its in teh winter. Even this winter its a lot less then what it use to be. Shes progressed A LOT from when I first got her, she would bolt teh second you put your butt in teh saddle to rear every step she took. She also use to drag you out in teh pasture when you try and catch her etc etc etc lol I could go on. Now she practically trots to me, jumps small 2' courses, you can do just about ANYTHING with her [standing on her, crawling under her, sliding off her] She can now be ridden somewhat bridleless or just with a halter. Ive also gotten it to where shes very senative to cues undersaddle, and it takes barely anything to get her to go teh gait you ask. She now can walk-canter as well :) Shes a very willing to please type mare and will put her WHOLE heart into something that you ask of her, and thats why I believe its physical. I just cant wait to find out for sure.
 
#25 ·
Well I sure did get quite a few things wrong LOL- but that was the impression that I and, perhaps, other readers may have gotten.

I'm not sure that it makes a difference with Chance but I am glad that you are going to work with a trainer to improve your skills.
 
#26 ·
Do you have a trainer? Alot of what you say are Chance's problems seem like they would be dealt with swiftly and without issue by someone that is a well-seasoned horse trainer, as they would expect to see those things in re-training a horse, and it unwarrants too much mention from them, because it is settled before the issue has a chance to snowball further. Alot of the behaviour I have encountered while training my horse troubles and frustrates me initially, and then my trainer comes out and 98% of the time I'm doing something incorrectly or she handles my horse and straightens it out and we move on. I too rode horses for 9 years, but owning my first untrained horse was like greek to me - until I found a very valuable translator, my trainer. In fact, riding was such a technical thing for me, I rarely thought about the mental processes of a horse, I was self-engulfed, even when riding greenies. To be on the ground or training undersaddle, that truly makes you accountable for your actions and how they effect the life and learning path of a horse when its in such an impressionable phase, rather then riding a horse that knows the MO and can deal with your imperfections in seat and cue coordination. sometimes, we just can't do that on our own. I'm not saying sell the horse and move on to a 15 year old 4H pony. I guess I'm saying that you need someone that is going to force you out of this caretaker-child relationship and push you towards a healthier teacher-pupil relationship, so that you don't have to ride a ticking timebomb for the rest of the years you own him. We owe it to our horses to admit we can do better, especially if we are basically backyard trainers. We have to keep our head over water because without the help we'll just, well you know, ride on with the analogy, haha.
 
#29 ·
I was trying to post something else but I ran out of time :
I think that having the vet out is a good choice then you can rule out anything physical or hormones that may be affecting her.
Horses are always trying to tell us something and it is our job to listen , the vet could find something with a blood test or exam that as owners we dont see.
good luck , keep us updated
 
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