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Super Bad and Dangerous Horse

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        07-06-2012, 11:47 PM
      #21
    Showing
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by arrowsaway    
    I usually don't question your advice, Sky, you are more well-versed than I. But... should she even try? If it's her first horse, it sounds like a pretty big project. I know there are a few crazy success stories out there, but the odds are pretty stacked.

    It sounds like she has a lot to learn about horses in general, and should probably stick to taking lessons until she gets her leadership skills down. No?
    Yeah her best bet would be to sell/return the horse and take up lessons and strive to learn about horses in general because they're dangerous if you don't know what you're doing.

    Because from what she knows currently, any horse will turn into a monster (and please OP don't take this the wrong way) because she doesn't understand them from what her original post entailed.

    SO if she is dead set on keeping this horse then she's going to need to SERIOUSLY read up and learn some things NOW from a trainer on handling horses, reading horses, and other basic horse communication/herd dynamics.. before she should even consider riding.

    I've made that journey myself.. and it was very hard and at times terrifying and I'm dang lucky I'm still alive (doesn't it sound like I went into war lol!) but it definitely needs to be done sooner than later.

    But honestly, you're right arrowsaway. I wouldn't advise her to keep a horse atm. It's already escalating faster than wildfire..
         
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        07-06-2012, 11:50 PM
      #22
    Banned
    Talking

    Ya my dad arranged a trainer to come out know but I know that I can't have a trainer forever I wanna know how to handle her. Thank you every one for your advice
         
        07-06-2012, 11:52 PM
      #23
    Started
    I wouldn't even be doing unsupervised groundwork with her - can be just as dangerous as riding. She's definitely got your number and you need to listen to your parents or you'll get hurt and they'll never let you near a horse again. Unfortunately so many riding schools don't teach anything about horse handling but if you have a good instructor he/she will be able to show you feeding rules, ground handling, correct leading and other stuff that will help you develop the skills and confidence you need.

    I have a very difficult horse and I'm selling him even though I can handle him, because he needs daily reminders of who is boss and I can't see him more than twice a week. It's heartbreaking, I know, but broken hearts mend quicker than broken heads, no matter what the poets say. Find her a good experienced home (preferably with some help from your instructor) and she'll be fine.
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        07-06-2012, 11:53 PM
      #24
    Weanling
    The trainer's job is to assess the problems, handle them, and teach you how to handle them in the future. Learning from someone who is experienced, and there in person to assess the situation, is the best way to go about it.
         
        07-06-2012, 11:54 PM
      #25
    Showing
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by UpAndAbove    
    ya my dad arranged a trainer to come out know but I know that I can't have a trainer forever I wanna know how to handle her. Thank you every one for your advice
    We can tell you till we're blue in the face. But the ONLY way is to go out there and actively learn. Watch horse herds, take ground work lessons (not just riding lessons) so you can learn how to handle a horse and how to keep your emotions in check.


    Watch videos like that so you can see how they establish their pecking order (who is in charge, who ranks over who, who is the weakest, who is the strongest) and try to read their reactions.

    It's not like a bike where you learn a b c and get on and ride. It's an animal with complex behavior and methods to the madness.
         
        07-07-2012, 12:01 AM
      #26
    Trained
    Afraid I agree with Possum. Please, for your(& hers too for that matter) safety's sake, don't continue to put yourself in danger with this horse, at least without good professional help! You're lucky you've only had minor accidents with her so far.

    I also agree with Possum that it's likely that she's just 'got your number', that she has never learned to respect you(remember you've got to *earn* it, it's never automatic & can't be forced), but likely just humoured you for the first few weeks to learn what you were about.

    **However I would also want to get her, your saddle, etc, assessed & make sure her behaviour isn't pain related. That could well be a big part of the equation that needs to be ruled out/treated before you work on training issues.

    Quote:
    It takes me like 20 minutes to catch her, and I don't chase her, its like she is saying"Na,Na,Na,Na you can't catch me!!" and is playing a game to piss me off.
    The questions I'd be asking are, why doesn't she want to come when called & what can you do to change her motivation, make you an attractive prospect to spend time with? She is not likely playing the game to p**s you off as such, but in the hope you'll give up & p**s off!

    Quote:
    It takes forerver to put her bridle on she bobs her head to avoid the bridle and it is very difficult to get the headstall over her head, and when I eventually do I have to FORCE the bit into her mouth, I tried the finger-in-the-mouth thing but it does not work, and I have also tried to hold a lil treat above the bit to encourage her to open her mouth and it worked a few times and now she wont fall for it.
    I think bribery/luring can be a good tool, but as you've found, while it can be good for initial motivation, if the rest of the experience is unpleasant for the horse, it's often not enough. It also tends to lead to a horse doing less for more, as they learn the minimum they can do to get the treat. So again, I'd be working out ways of making bridling not such an unpleasant affair firstly, such as not forcing, and instead of bribery, I'd save those treats for positive reinforcement at the time she does 'Right' stuff.

    Quote:
    Sometimes she makes me sooo mad that I whip her with it and then I regret it. Even when I whip her SHE DOES NOT CARE!!!.
    Sounds like you already know getting mad & punishing her is only going to work against you. We all get frustrated & emotional sometimes, but it's important not to let it get the better of you. One way to help you do this - and get a better thing going with her - is to consider it from her point of view(this may mean you first have to educate yourself on equine behaviour & bodylanguage to have a clue what her perspective may be). For eg. I highly doubt that she doesn't care when you hit her, but in the same manner as a 'hard mouthed' horse is just as sensitive & easily hurt as any other, she has learned that the best course of action is to ignore the discomfort/pain & it will go away. She is just simply doing what works for her to get through an unpleasant experience. So working on changing the way you do things, so she doesn't see it as a bad 'game' anyway, and learning how to effectively use positive & negative reinforcement.

    Quote:
    and I never abused her. She thinks she is the boss, and she walks all over me. Do you think it can be my size? I am 13 years old 5'3 and 98 lbs. And she thinks that she is bigger so she could boss me around?
    Firstly, quoted the end of your first sentence above to point out that while you haven't 'abused' her in the strict sense of the word, thinking about it from her point of view, it does sound like it may be pretty unpleasant for her - eg. Imagine being forced to put up with or do unpleasant/painful things like the bit, being ridden, etc. You need to find ways of turning what you want of her into pleasant, fun experiences.

    She doesn't just think she is the boss, she is and she is disciplining you for your insolence, but you're not listening. It's nothing to do with your size - even a shetland can get the better of a grown man & even a small child can get the better of a clydie. You want to avoid dominance battles with any horse. IMO you need to forget about 'brawn' and trying to force her to do stuff & learn how to play WITH her.
         
        07-07-2012, 12:02 AM
      #27
    Trained
    Afraid I agree with Possum. Please, for your(& hers too for that matter) safety's sake, don't continue to put yourself in danger with this horse, at least without good professional help! You're lucky you've only had minor accidents with her so far.

    I also agree with Possum that it's likely that she's just 'got your number', that she has never learned to respect you(remember you've got to *earn* it, it's never automatic & can't be forced), but likely just humoured you for the first few weeks to learn what you were about.

    **However I would also want to get her, your saddle, etc, assessed & make sure her behaviour isn't pain related. That could well be a big part of the equation that needs to be ruled out/treated before you work on training issues.

    Quote:
    It takes me like 20 minutes to catch her, and I don't chase her, its like she is saying"Na,Na,Na,Na you can't catch me!!" and is playing a game to piss me off.
    The questions I'd be asking are, why doesn't she want to come when called & what can you do to change her motivation, make you an attractive prospect to spend time with? She is not likely playing the game to p**s you off as such, but in the hope you'll give up & p**s off!

    Quote:
    It takes forerver to put her bridle on she bobs her head to avoid the bridle and it is very difficult to get the headstall over her head, and when I eventually do I have to FORCE the bit into her mouth, I tried the finger-in-the-mouth thing but it does not work, and I have also tried to hold a lil treat above the bit to encourage her to open her mouth and it worked a few times and now she wont fall for it.
    I think bribery/luring can be a good tool, but as you've found, while it can be good for initial motivation, if the rest of the experience is unpleasant for the horse, it's often not enough. It also tends to lead to a horse doing less for more, as they learn the minimum they can do to get the treat. So again, I'd be working out ways of making bridling not such an unpleasant affair firstly, such as not forcing, and instead of bribery, I'd save those treats for positive reinforcement at the time she does 'Right' stuff.

    Quote:
    Sometimes she makes me sooo mad that I whip her with it and then I regret it. Even when I whip her SHE DOES NOT CARE!!!.
    Sounds like you already know getting mad & punishing her is only going to work against you. We all get frustrated & emotional sometimes, but it's important not to let it get the better of you. One way to help you do this - and get a better thing going with her - is to consider it from her point of view(this may mean you first have to educate yourself on equine behaviour & bodylanguage to have a clue what her perspective may be). For eg. I highly doubt that she doesn't care when you hit her, but in the same manner as a 'hard mouthed' horse is just as sensitive & easily hurt as any other, she has learned that the best course of action is to ignore the discomfort/pain & it will go away. She is just simply doing what works for her to get through an unpleasant experience. So working on changing the way you do things, so she doesn't see it as a bad 'game' anyway, and learning how to effectively use positive & negative reinforcement.

    Quote:
    and I never abused her. She thinks she is the boss, and she walks all over me. Do you think it can be my size? I am 13 years old 5'3 and 98 lbs. And she thinks that she is bigger so she could boss me around?
    Firstly, quoted the end of your first sentence above to point out that while you haven't 'abused' her in the strict sense of the word, thinking about it from her point of view, it does sound like it may be pretty unpleasant for her - eg. Imagine being forced to put up with or do unpleasant/painful things like the bit, being ridden, etc. You need to find ways of turning what you want of her into pleasant, fun experiences.

    She doesn't just think she is the boss, she is and she is disciplining you for your insolence, but you're not listening. It's nothing to do with your size - even a shetland can get the better of a grown man & even a small child can get the better of a clydie. You want to avoid dominance battles with any horse. IMO you need to forget about 'brawn' and trying to force her to do stuff & learn how to play WITH her.
         
        07-07-2012, 12:13 AM
      #28
    Super Moderator
    Sorry not a case of "Super Bad and Dangerous Horse" this is a case of "Super Green and Inexperienced" owner.

    I agree with those that say sell the horse, get a trainer, most of all, learn how to handle horses.
         
        07-07-2012, 12:39 AM
      #29
    Banned
    Thank you soo much for your advice. And I feel very ashamed for how I acted, and how can I get her to love me withought spoiling her. Because I had a old 30 year old mare and I would spoil her and love her soo much that she thought she would not need to listen to me. But she was a companion horse and was not intended to be ridden. So I did not really worry about it. I know I don't have much experience but she is very gentle when I am not on her, so how can I make her love me? Can I lead her through my trails and let her graze and stuff? How can I get her to trust and bond with me. I am very ashamed of myself and if I try to bond with her will she forget the past if I don't do it again?? She is very good at leading she will go werever I want her to go even over scary stuff

    Please reply
         
        07-07-2012, 12:43 AM
      #30
    Weanling
    Its not about getting her to love you. Its about getting her to respect you. Once she respects you, then she will come to rely on you and 'love' you. You have no need to be ashamed. Its easy to want to be loved by an animal that we love more than most anything else. The advice given to you in this thread will get you there.
         

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