tap, bump, slap, BAM whats ok ? - The Horse Forum
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post #1 of 22 Old 06-07-2008, 07:56 AM Thread Starter
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tap, bump, slap, BAM whats ok ?

I want to continue the hurting horses topic here.
What is ok to discipline a horse? I just want opinions please, no rants. :)

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post #2 of 22 Old 06-07-2008, 08:36 AM
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Well to me if you give the horse a good thump then yes abuse, there for its not training/ disapline any more.

But then if you give it a wack, and say it wont actually hurt...then really what lesson does it teach the horse, why bother hitting it in the first place? Its unpleasnt....fair enough but......i would think the horse would get over that minor unplesantness and not actually see it as any sort of punishment...long term im talking here.

I now dont use any sort of hitting...and i would never kick my horses. sure i have hit in the past...didnt seem enough at all to actually hurt the horse..so to speak....but i prefur to learn other methods. I focus on somewhat ignoreing the bad and reward the good. By not reacting to the less desirable behaviour and giveing oodles of praise for the good.
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post #3 of 22 Old 06-07-2008, 09:02 AM
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I often use a slap or bump on the ground when they're in my space. Just enough to let them know I'm still there and they needn't stand on me. Or a poke if they're ignoring the move over tongue click. Thats about as far as it goes. Might crack a lunge whip benind them. but usually don't need it. :)
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post #4 of 22 Old 06-07-2008, 10:16 AM
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I think it really depends on the situation and the horse. If the horse is really sensitive sometimes all it takes is a strong 'no' for the horse to understand that it has done something wrong. Some may take a bump, others a smack. If I am working with a new horse I will start with voice, and increase force until I find what it responds to. But it also depends on the situation.. if the horse is a known biter and tries to bite me, I will stick my elbow or my fist in its way so it bangs its nose of it (I dont punch or hit the horse... its the one who ran into me) i dont believe in hitting a horse, but sometimes thats what they listen to.
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post #5 of 22 Old 06-07-2008, 11:56 AM
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It depends on the horse. :) For example...if my horse were to try to nip me (although she doesn't) I'd give her a tap on the neck.
Once in awhile I do have to smack her (not hard!) if she's being a brat hehe but nothing major. Usually I discipline her verbally, & that's enough for her.

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post #6 of 22 Old 06-07-2008, 07:40 PM
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I always start with my voice...then I'll stomp the ground or hit the ground with a whip ( only had to do that once or twice) I don't usually have a whip ...then I go to poking then shoving ( ground work type) then...if that doesn't work I'll slap the hiney. A biting horse gets pushed away......actually I don't let my horses get their mouths near me when we are working unless its my idea. Twister has nipped my daughter and he has lost his nuzzeling priveledges because of it, he always gets his head pushed away. Now when he tried to bit Anthony I caught him bare teethed and ready to go for it, and he got smacked in the neck and pushed off....then it was forgotten. He hasn't tried to bite again but then, I don't give him the opportunity either.

If I get a rump swung around to me...I will smack it everytime. I ususally start with a smack like you would slap your own leg..not that hard...then if they don't move I'll get progressively stronger...usually a "move it" command and a slap/strong pat is good enough. My horses have never offered to kick me but if a horsefly or something else gets 'em I don't want to be in range...They have to realize that I don't want that end pointed at me. They are really good about it now.

The folks that had these horses before we got them had a heavy hand and would slap them in the neck to say good boy just about as hard as I smack them to tell them no. It's really hard to say what each of us concider disipline. I smack less than they did. I also don't find the need to do it everyday either. It's just a once in a while thing for me. They listen to voice commands really well. But thats just my situation and horses...sorry so long... * pulls fresh cookies outta the cyber oven*
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post #7 of 22 Old 06-07-2008, 08:45 PM
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Whats ok?

Like alot of you said, it all depends on the personality of the horse that you are dealing with. If a horse is pushing you around, its dangerous. They are alot bigger then you. That doesnt mean you go by the old saying: "you gotta hurt them before they hurt you", but they HAVE to respect you. You are the leader.Not so much of a boss, but a leader as a stallion or lead mare would be in the wild. So, what I would say is you do it in stages. Dont ever full fledged hit your horse. It just gets you more wound up along with the horse. I think it is just overall confusing for the horse. They dont know how to react, so sometimes they do it in different ways: rear, buck, kick, bite, ect. I have learned that dont work with a horse when you are wound up. You might end up retracing your steps instead of making moves forward if you do.

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post #8 of 22 Old 06-08-2008, 12:20 AM
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i believe it is ok to discipline a horse, but certainly, this must be done fairly and without using excessive force. Yes, horses do kick each other in the paddock but first they will put their ears back, shake their head, point their hindquarters at the other horse, move towards the other horse and THEN kick. The other horse has plenty of warning and if its silly enough not to believe that the other horse will kick it - then it will soon learn!

Personally, I use a similar principle with my horses. If I want my horse to move out of my space, I'll gently push against her with my hand and she'll willingly move. But she wasn't always this way, she used to prefer to ignore my signal and go on standing. So I progressively increased the intenisty of the signal until I got a response. As soon as she moved, I stopped and left her alone. Now, she knows that if I want her to move, i'll get what I want and so she moves when I ask her politely, before i start getting insistant.

Certainly, disciplining a horse has to be in a way that the horse understands - if it isn't done properly, it does more harm than good to the horse.

When I bestride him, I soar, I am a hawk: he trots the air; the earth sings when he touches it; the basest horn of his hoof is more musical than the pipe of Hermes. ~William Shakespeare
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post #9 of 22 Old 06-08-2008, 06:32 AM Thread Starter
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The Parelli porcupine game is using physical force to make a horse move. I have seen Clinton Anderson tap a horses chest pretty aggressivly with a stick to get it out of his space. I see trainers all the time tapping a horse on the butt to get it into a trailer or to move forward. I personally keep my fist and elbow at the ready when training young horses to walk on a halter and lead. I bump them if they try to bite my hand and bump them with my elbow if they try to run me over.
I just don't understand how you can be around a horse and never lay a hand on them. In the word "hand" I mean any type of device that comes in contact with the horse, be it carrot stick, lunge whip or whatever. I teach all my girls to see my hand like its their mouth. It can be a comfort or a threat. The lunge whip or stick just an extension of my hand. I greet them and offer my hand to them just like they do to each other when they meet. they put their noses together. When their good I comfort them like a mother, when their bad I bite them like their mother. I've raised 3 horses from birth to 2-3 years old. None of them are head shy or afraid of my hand. I can stick my fingers up the nose in the ears, clean the gunk out of their eyes without a single pull away. Am I just lucky ?

"Until one has loved an animal, part of one's soul remains unawakened..."
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post #10 of 22 Old 06-08-2008, 07:51 AM
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no, vidaloco, I think you just know how to use discipline correctly. I am yet to find one well mannered horse that has never been disciplined. All the horses I know who's owners never, ever disciplined the horse, have bad mannered animals. No offense to anyone - once the horse has been trained, you probably wont need to smack, kick etc them but certainly, at the beginning horses will test you out to see who's going to be the alpha mare.

When I bestride him, I soar, I am a hawk: he trots the air; the earth sings when he touches it; the basest horn of his hoof is more musical than the pipe of Hermes. ~William Shakespeare
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