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The Tap!? Looks worrying... Opinions please

4K views 20 replies 11 participants last post by  Dreamcatcher Arabians 
#1 ·
Hello there,
Recently I was told to use the "Tap" by "Endospink" on my horse.

I had never heard of it, so did a little research. When I looked into it, I read that it's for problem horses, which my horse isn't! (And it was recommended on here for my horse, when I have no problems with her - touch wood - except for occasionally trying to nap, but that wasn't even the reason someone recommended it)

Looking at some videos, it looks quite harsh. I watched a few of Endospink's vids, and a few amateur. It seems quite controversial and I can't say it's something I'd like to try on my horse, without a trained professional, who know's exactly what this "tap" does.

People are saying it "rewires" the problem horse's brain. Hmm, I was under the impression you can't rewire a horse's brain, they are, and always will be a flight animal, and it's up to you to gain it's trust through more natural methods.

See, I would have posted this in NH training, as people seem to believe that it is, but when I look at it, there doesn't seem to be anything natural about it. I've read the comments people have added, and some say that it's natural behaviour horses would exhibit in the wild. What a load of old tosh. One doesn't see the alpha horse pulling on a horse and pulling it to the ground. They use body language to show their dominance.

People also leave the saddle on for this technique, and the horse falls quite dramatically, which wouldn't be comfortable anyway, let alone with the saddle on! Also, there's a lot of pressure on the horse's neck, and when watching it people say on their vids "now I'm flexing his neck" and when I see it, the horse's neck is not flexed at all! Before doing anything to do with flexing the neck, such as one rein stop Etc, the neck muscles should be nice and loose, so as not to cause any neck trouble, but these horses can barely flex their necks at all, and yet the "trainers" think that's an adequate amount to then continue with the tap. Also, these horse's are bitted, and there's a LOT of pulling that goes on in the horse's mouth.

When I see these vids, it's very worrying. In my opinion, they're only getting their horse's "trust" as they put the horse in a very vulnerable position, and therefore is having to do what they're told afterwards, for fear they may be hurt.

It seems very controversial, and seems a bit worrying. Looks like it could go very wrong in the wrong hands :?

Opinions please, but keep it tame, it seems like there could be a lot of heated things to say either for or against this topic, and I don't want to cause WWIII!
 
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#2 ·
Here are a couple quotes I read from fans
"The tap works. If you've seen Endo's videos, you can see that he starts out with ****-for-brains half-broke (or not at all broke!) thoroughbreds and after the tap, they're light and cooperative race prospects, their brain has been reprogrammed"

"I can't see how people can call this creul. It's a legimate procidure based on behavior of wild horses. if i remeber right, in the horse language, i think it's something like a death threat"

Hmm... I'm not convinced these people know what they're talking about...
 
#9 ·
all it is is laying a horse down (which does work but is only really suitable for extreme cases). he just packages and sells the method he uses get the horse down.
I agree. It's definitely not something new. He's just packaged it and marketed it.

I have seen this done, many years ago in an extreme case. Is it something I'd try myself, nope. There's a hundred other ways to deal with things before resorting to dropping them. I'm not a fan of any short cut methods or gadgets and this falls into that category imo.
 
#4 ·
Well, the other day my horse fell to her front knees (it's all sorted now, and I have my answers Etc) and someone said that she was trying to start off the tap herself, and wanted me to continue with it... Hmm, well, I'm pretty certain this wasn't the case, I'm sure it was a health reason, but anyway, that's how I came to hear of it. But she's not a problem horse or anything (touch wood!), I just wondered what it was really, and when I watched, I have to say, it's not something I'd do with her.
 
#6 ·
From what I've seen and heard about it, it's used to get the horse cooperative. They brag about it not being stressful to the horse. To me, it's just a quick fix and breaks the horses spirit. It may work but I don't think it's the best way, just an easy way.

Another thing I don't agree with what they do is training 1 1/2 year olds to be rode. Endospink trains horses to race and training them young is acceptable to them.
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#7 ·
A funny thing about endospink is that he only approves comments on his videos that agree or compliment him. I questioned on one of his videos about the "tap" is just breaking the horses spirit. It was never approved or allowed to be posted. To me, that just shows he knows that is all it does but doesn't want to admit it.
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#10 ·
A funny thing about endospink is that he only approves comments on his videos that agree or compliment him. I questioned on one of his videos about the "tap" is just breaking the horses spirit. It was never approved or allowed to be posted. To me, that just shows he knows that is all it does but doesn't want to admit it.
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I happen to know Paul and if you knew the history you would not be saying this.

The advise give to the OP is obviously by someone that didn't know what they were talking about.

Doing this is NOT for amateurs and should only be used under special circumstances. Does it work...sure does and is not a new thing at all.

As far as the comments... it is his site and if he felt this was not an intended snark to get everyone's ire up he probably would discuss it however there have been too many that pose questions like your just to create drama.
 
#11 · (Edited)
Nobody's posting to cause drama, and I'm sure usandpets wasn't trying to stir either, and was probably just asking, as some similar methods are classed as breaking the horse's spirit, I'm sure he wasn't just trying to cause drama.

I was told to use this method, I researched it, and some of the things I saw did not sit right with me, at all. I thought I'd ask, and point out the things that unsettled me, and see what peoples' opinions and knowledge of the subject was. I'm still unsure about the method, and don't plan to use it, but I'm a bit clearer now. So, now everyone has been so kind to help me on this subject, it may be better for a Mod to close it now... as, as I'd imagined, it is quite a touchy subject, and I have enough answers without causing more tension.
Thank you all for your input
Holly :D
 
#14 ·
Spyder - thank you for adding that.

I've seen horses dropped and have never done it myself as I have the luxury of time to sort through things without resorting to doing so.

If I were in that situation and it was fix it fast or the horse became food, you bet your butt I'd do it in a heartbeat.

That being said, I don't think it's something that the average horse owner needs to run out and try.
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#15 ·
Thank you Spyder for sharing that. Like you said, I don't know him and didn't know the history behind it. I admit I made an uninformed opinion. But how are we supposed to learn or be informed without asking. If we do ask and don't get answers, we are lead to misinformed opinions.
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#17 ·
I understand useandpets.

Paul got so much flack in the beginning that he gets very wary of off the cuff questions.

There was one video of him fixing a rearer. Didn't use the tap at all. The previous "trainers" just panicked when the horse reared about 10 steps after being mounted and dismounted quickly that it became part of it's avoidance scheme.

He was given to Paul to fix or you know where he would have gone.

Well he documented what he did and true to form the first time on him the horse reared. Paul did absolutely nothing. The horse reared many times and Paul just sat there. Got him walking and on day two same thing. Day three the rear was barely there. By day 4 or five...no rear.

What was a lot of misinformed flack he got in the beginning ( he was abusing the hoirse to he was "nerving" the horse.) All of which was medically proven to be untrue. People...good knowledgeable people changed their opinion of him over the years into respect and most people in the know realize what a good horseman he really is.

And Wearsbear...his nickname over the years was "pinky" or "endospink". LOL
 
#18 ·
I can say that we used an adapted version or part-tap on a thoroughbred that reared and struck out with his front feet when he was getting his feet done. We just used a bridle and when he went to rear we just applied constant pressure and made him bend his neck, he didn't fall and there was no yanking hard on the bit, just enough pressure for him to be uncomfortable. We did it at one farrier session and he's a dream to do now. So I think it has it's place and people just need to be sensible and sensitive to the horse and the individual reason you are looking at for using it.
 
#19 ·
I have a lot of respect for Endospink. I have watched most of his videos and find him to be a great aspect to the racing world in Japan. For a long time he did not sell his method or anything of the sort and stated that no one should try, instead he was just documenting what he did. People seemed to jump off from there, then he did give a rather cheap fully explained version in a flash drive and sold that for 'trainers only'. He has a good sense of humor and is an amazing rider. He earns his living ( as far as I can see) from working with race horses, not selling information on training with the tap.

To the OP no, do not try and tap your horse that was misinformed advice. It is an end of the line extreme case for horses that need a come to jesus meeting, if time alone can not work out their issues. (I understand that Endospink has no time which is why he uses it more often than any of us other people should)

I stumbled across the tap a while ago when my horse went through a horrible, rearing phase with the gate. He started to tap himself and I decided to finish it off. That covered Jake's rearing problem for years before I messed up again....thats another story though. It made a change and the horse that refused to walk on four legs through the gate into the arena, walked in on a loose rein after that was done. I would never consider myself of capable of doing it to any other horse, or as a trainer for anything. There are other ways around the situation if you have time 80% of the time.
 
#21 ·
I've used something similar on foals who just seem to not be able to get a clue, but didn't know that it actually had a name. When I've had a foal who wants to just FIGHT everything (usually a colt, go figure) and they're getting to be 4 months or more in age and starting to get big and heavy enough that very shortly I'm going to have major trouble with them, I have let them throw themselves to the ground and then held them there until they relax and submit. And I agree that it's not a move I'd use on every horse. The colts I've used it on were big, one of them is now a yearling and already closing in on 16 hh, and just absolutely would not get with the program before I held them down. This last one threw himself down the day he was born rather than let me move him from one area of the stall to another. I just laid down next to him, put my arm over his neck and a leg over his body and held him down until he relaxed and eventually fell asleep with his head on my arm. Once he woke up and would let me stand up and walk away without jumping to his feet, I called it good and let him back up. Now that he's gotten huge so early and is MUCH bigger than I could wrestle successfully, he's very easy to work with and doesn't get spooked by much that I ask him to do. He figured out early that I really don't want to eat him or I'd have done it while he was down. His mother is one of the most trusting horses on the planet, I never had to even think of doing something like that to her, but he was the polar opposite.
 
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