Techniques For Halting A Defiant Horse??? - Page 2
 
 

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Techniques For Halting A Defiant Horse???

This is a discussion on Techniques For Halting A Defiant Horse??? within the Horse Training forums, part of the Training Horses category

     
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        12-10-2009, 01:24 AM
      #11
    Yearling
    Ok, awesome.

    So I'm guessing you will practice this from the ground until backing and halting are fluid and soft. So then when you do get into the saddle you would then use the same 'see-saw' (I know what you mean) motion? Or does it change when a bit comes into play?
         
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        12-10-2009, 10:34 AM
      #12
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kiwigirl    
    Ok, awesome.

    So I'm guessing you will practice this from the ground until backing and halting are fluid and soft. So then when you do get into the saddle you would then use the same 'see-saw' (I know what you mean) motion? Or does it change when a bit comes into play?
    Where I think a lot of folks get off track with early training is that they are pretty good riders and so they have been coached to have a pretty good form when riding.
    In other words the horse has less experience than the rider is with the cue.
    Now the horse knows how to be a horse pretty good and he also knows how to move pretty good from running around in the pasture.
    He just does not know what that cue means.

    In the beginning the Handler and rider have to kind of exaggerate the cue and balance to help the horse learn what they mean and as the training goes on that cue is refined to where the horse is.

    To answer your question,I try to ask in a way that the horse will understand and get the idea of what I am wanting him to do.
    I always try to build on what I have asked in the past and so I this case I would kind of stack the deck so he can get the idea even better.

    When a horse is having a REAL tough time getting the idea,I do alley or chute work.
    A chute is made out of a couple of panels and is wide enough so as not to bang the riders knees.
    The horse is led through in both directions and then mounted like this.
    Now after the horse is very comfortable(days,weeks,whatever)one end is closed off.
    Ride the horse in and just sit there until you feel the horse wanting to go back.
    When that moment comes add the cue and encourage.



    Some horses need to really go left,right ,left,right when backing up and what I mean by that is that they just don't get the idea of back being one movement.
    They kind of see it as two movements or more and the handler starts by just getting a left foot only.
    Then the handler wants the right foot only and that is the back and forth that you are talking about.

    To get a good stop,then ride the horse forward to the backup.
         
        12-10-2009, 02:47 PM
      #13
    Yearling
    Brilliant, Marecare. I have taught my mare to back up using an alternating side method. I draw back to my hip with left hand and push on with my right leg set slightly back, when I start it is with an exagerated movement. So initially we start with one foot at a time, once Phoenix got the concept of going backwards my action becomes more refined. I am not sure if this is a correct way of backing a horse but it works for me.

    Stopping at the moment is not so good as Phoenix does like to keep moving forward. When I say that though I mean that rather than an instant stop and a nice stand still the best way I can describe it is that she 'idles' rather like a very powerful car at a set of lights. So she does stop but with very bad grace, head tossing and pulling on the bit and when made to stand still she shuffles and fidgets. I have been spending more time just standing in one place with dropped reins when she really fusses and that is helping.

    I am thinking about doing some stop training from the ground with long reins (which I have never used in my life) Having seen your pics I can see the application working very well. What do you think? Phoenix is a very placid animal and tends to be unflappable if I end up with leads tangled around her legs she isn't the sort to care. I guess I have to start somewhere.
         
        12-10-2009, 02:59 PM
      #14
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kiwigirl    
    Brilliant, Marecare. I have taught my mare to back up using an alternating side method. I draw back to my hip with left hand and push on with my right leg set slightly back, when I start it is with an exagerated movement. So initially we start with one foot at a time, once Phoenix got the concept of going backwards my action becomes more refined. I am not sure if this is a correct way of backing a horse but it works for me.

    Stopping at the moment is not so good as Phoenix does like to keep moving forward. When I say that though I mean that rather than an instant stop and a nice stand still the best way I can describe it is that she 'idles' rather like a very powerful car at a set of lights. So she does stop but with very bad grace, head tossing and pulling on the bit and when made to stand still she shuffles and fidgets. I have been spending more time just standing in one place with dropped reins when she really fusses and that is helping.

    I am thinking about doing some stop training from the ground with long reins (which I have never used in my life) Having seen your pics I can see the application working very well. What do you think? Phoenix is a very placid animal and tends to be unflappable if I end up with leads tangled around her legs she isn't the sort to care. I guess I have to start somewhere.

    Yes,That is true.
    You do have to start somewhere and maybe a single line and then advance to the double line.
    It sounds like you are doing a fine job and just continue what you are working on.
    As the cue becomes something that your horse is looking for,then you keep refining it it the level that YOU are at as a rider.

    As you change through the years and become a better and better rider you bring more to the horse and refine the cue all along the way.

    Horses really like it when we become better at riding.
         
        12-10-2009, 03:26 PM
      #15
    Weanling
    Thank you everyone for your responses! Gosh, I didn't expect to get this much feedback during the last several hours. One person commented saying that Cody might be too much of a horse for me. That is not the case in this situation, he is a defiant pony. What REALLY scares me is this is his example of listening BETTER to me then anyone else. Cody is even worse for my trainer and the other boarders who have attempted to ride him. I am determined and not the type of person who is going to give up on him by any stretch of the imagination. We've made it too far. Some of you weren't "clear" as to what I meant by transitioning from left rein, right rein, left rein to confuse him. That's alright, I'll try to explain it better.

    It is sort of like a "seesawing" motion, back and forth using both reins. This also gets him to set his head as well as slowing him down. However, what does it mean when he CONTINUOUSLY YANKS his head down, and up, but mostly down. Everything is perfect, not too tight, not too loose, and my aids are wonderful. He just seems very stubborn!

    Gahhh! I love this pony! Help?
         
        12-10-2009, 05:41 PM
      #16
    Yearling
    I was just saying that I have similar sort of issue with my horse, she also does the head nodding and she is a fidget. I was discussing reteaching the halt from the ground with Marecare. I know the reason Phoenix does what she does is because when I broke her in I was so entranced with her lovely forward motion and awesome riding that I kind of skimmed over some very fundermental lessons. I am going to go back and redress the subject with Phoenix because it is not a problem to the level of your little guy but I know that if I don't fix my mistake it will become a major problem.

    Maybe you could think of doing the same, you said that your aids are perfect and you are doing everything exactly right so it is the horses problem. Maybe he doesn't understand the language you are speaking and going back to fundermental ground work ie stopping, backing, could get you both speaking the same language.
         
        12-10-2009, 11:52 PM
      #17
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Angelhorsegirl    

    It is sort of like a "seesawing" motion, back and forth using both reins. This also gets him to set his head as well as slowing him down. However, what does it mean when he CONTINUOUSLY YANKS his head down, and up, but mostly down. Everything is perfect, not too tight, not too loose, and my aids are wonderful. He just seems very stubborn!

    Gahhh! I love this pony! Help?
    You may think that your aids are wonderful but I'll bet your pony disagrees. Horses aren't just stubborn. If you were making it easy for him to do what you want he would do it. It sounds to me like he is searching for the release of pressure but he's not finding it. If you came to me for lessons on this pony I would tell you to quit the see sawing and use steady, light pressure and then release completely as soon as the horse stops.
         
        12-11-2009, 11:10 AM
      #18
    Foal
    A good Whoa is the result of Backin up!! First get the cues down-- Sit down and crunch your bellly, feet forward and say Whoa. Reinforce with the reins only after he ignores the first set of cues--never pull with both reins-thats what makes a horse rear up--see saw the reins. Wiggle your toes and keep the pressure with your seat bones means back up. Work with him to stop and back up--RIGHT NOW. Pretty soon stopping is easy
         
        12-11-2009, 04:14 PM
      #19
    Weanling
    Cody is an extremely confusing animal. He adores me, and it is so apparent if you've ever seen us. He is completely NOT tolerant of anybody else, but he loves me. I don't mean to sound "bragging", just providing information. We have a very close relationship, and I don't believe he wants to do anything to INTENTIONALLY "harm" me. Cody is a doll and has NEVER reared up on me, although he does have a major bucking problem when he gets "too antsy" or "too excited." I can stay on during his "bucking fits", but I've never been reared up on. The only time I've EVER seen him rear is when he was getting picked on in the pasture by a MUCH bigger horse. He has all these nasty marks and bites. BUT my trainer won't let me move him to a different pasture, poor Cody. He is just trying to defend himself. Cody is like 14.3hh, and Toby (the horse who bullies him) is about 16.3hh...I do see saw the reins as opposed to flat out pulling, he is sooo very sensitive in his mouth. Cody is an angel, and I LOVE the horse to death but he is going to be the cause of MY DEATH. Gahh!
         
        12-11-2009, 04:20 PM
      #20
    Yearling
    OK, so obviously you just like to see your own writing. You have disregarded every piece of advice you have recieved and defend your horses crap behaviour - good luck!
         

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