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Temper Tantrum, Help please!

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  • Young horse throwing temper tantrum
  • Young horse doesn't want to work throws tantrums

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    09-10-2012, 07:52 PM
  #11
Foal
Thanks Saddlebag, yes we have been working on the lowering of the head, but the idea of "Heads up" is one I had not thought of..i will start that one tomorrow, thanks a million :)

Barrellracer00, yes the back 2 acres is totally fenced, the front where the grass it, is not. I have done all the ground work from November to last week in the back fenced area. Boy oh boy, I agree, it is much needed!! Thanks a lot :)
     
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    09-10-2012, 08:29 PM
  #12
Yearling
You are going to hate me after this post.
But this needs to be said.
Because I am afraid of either you or the horse getting hurt in the long run.
I'd like you to read this whole thread -

Buying a horse that's right for you.

If you don't want to, I'd like you to read this section I post below. I said none of this. All is quoted from the thread I linked above, written by smrobs, a very intelligent forumer.

"“I want to get a young horse so that we can learn together”. That is the most naive and asinine idea that there ever was and someone will end up hurt. Young horses are completely unpredictable and unpredictability with an inexperienced rider or handler is always dangerous.

It happens all the time and I can currently think of at least 3 open threads about this exact thing and the stream of them seems to be never ending.
“I’m a beginner and I am trying to train my horse but they are doing <insert misbehavior here>. What do I do?”

I know that many people who know nothing about horses tend to jump in head first without checking to see how deep the water is and that’s why I’m writing this post, in hopes of maybe educating some people so that they can save themselves, and an innocent horse, a lot of trouble.

I enjoy books and movies like The Black Stallion, National Velvet, My Friend Flicka, and the like as much as anyone but I think it’s time we get realistic. Love doesn't train a horse. Nobody can take a horse that has behavioral issues like bucking, bolting, rearing, biting, kicking, charging, etc, etc, etc and re-train it to be a perfect, respectful companion with nothing but hugs and kisses and sugar cubes. It simply doesn't work that way."

I do apologize, but it needed to be said ... I'm sorry if I offended anyone, for that was not my intentions. I suggest taking some riding lessons, going to some horse camps, getting all the information you can possibly get! In the meantime, maybe consider selling your current horse, letting the grass grow back, and buying back when you are just a little more educated in the world that is horses. There is just too much that we cannot feed to you through a forum. Please, consider your options.
     
    09-10-2012, 09:30 PM
  #13
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by xJumperx    

"“I want to get a young horse so that we can learn together”. That is the most naive and asinine idea that there ever was and someone will end up hurt. Young horses are completely unpredictable and unpredictability with an inexperienced rider or handler is always dangerous.

It happens all the time and I can currently think of at least 3 open threads about this exact thing and the stream of them seems to be never ending.
“I’m a beginner and I am trying to train my horse but they are doing <insert misbehavior here>. What do I do?”

I know that many people who know nothing about horses tend to jump in head first without checking to see how deep the water is and that’s why I’m writing this post, in hopes of maybe educating some people so that they can save themselves, and an innocent horse, a lot of trouble.

I enjoy books and movies like The Black Stallion, National Velvet, My Friend Flicka, and the like as much as anyone but I think it’s time we get realistic. Love doesn't train a horse. Nobody can take a horse that has behavioral issues like bucking, bolting, rearing, biting, kicking, charging, etc, etc, etc and re-train it to be a perfect, respectful companion with nothing but hugs and kisses and sugar cubes. It simply doesn't work that way."

I do apologize, but it needed to be said ... I'm sorry if I offended anyone, for that was not my intentions. I suggest taking some riding lessons, going to some horse camps, getting all the information you can possibly get! In the meantime, maybe consider selling your current horse, letting the grass grow back, and buying back when you are just a little more educated in the world that is horses. There is just too much that we cannot feed to you through a forum. Please, consider your options.
Agreed. This just screams disaster waiting to happen to me.

I have dealt with green horses before (well one or two), but I would never consider training one from the very beginning without help from a professional, and I have been riding off and on for sixteen years.
     
    09-10-2012, 09:35 PM
  #14
Green Broke
Many years ago, my wife did the same thing you're trying to do now.

It worked out beautifully for her and she had a bond with that horse like I've never seen before.

So, maybe you shouldn't take her out in the grass at all....that seems to be causing you problems.
Leesa likes this.
     
    09-10-2012, 09:40 PM
  #15
Foal
Oh no offence taken at all. I understand your concerns. I have tried to educate myself as much as possible. I have bought books, videos, educational papers, but nothing prepares you for the real thing. No, I have a bit more sense than to think I can train with sugar cubes and love, but I get the message for sure. I have come this far with her, I could not imagine selling her. I made her a promise to do right by her, and that’s what I am trying to do. It was either that, or she would have been slaughtered. I could never have lived with myself for doing the latter. Many times I have thought to myself “What have I got into? “This was stupid”. This was because at the beginning, she didn’t trust me, and I didn’t trust her. I spend roughly, 10 hours a day with her, and this has been the only issue in a year. It is something that we need to work through, not sell her because of it. Like I said before, together we have come far in a short period of time. I plan on her always being in training, and I am not selfish enough to think I will not be in training too…because (only my opinion) as an owner of a horse, my education will be ongoing. When I say I cannot ride, that was a little vague of an answer, what I should have said was, I am not a seasoned rider, but I can ride per se. No I don’t hate you for the post, I think it was very considerate of you. One step at a time is how we are taking each day. I don’t have any fancy round pens or special tack, but I have patience and I do listen to what she is offering me and I either dismiss it, or accept it and use it to both of our advantages. Safety is paramount…I say this three times each morning, but try not to let her know I am thinking along these lines. I do believe I have been blessed in training her. She was a little bit sassy when she first came as a 2 yr old, but she will be 3 in a couple of weeks and is showing that she has mastered the lessons we do. This issue we have today, has been the first one that I could not get my head around. But thanks to some wonderful advice, I am more than willing to try to resolve this, before it gets worse. But, I will always try my best to be on guard, I think that would go for anyone who has been around horses for a lifetime, or for two minutes. Thanks for the reply and the time you took with my post, I do appreciate it.
gunslinger likes this.
     
    09-10-2012, 10:10 PM
  #16
Super Moderator
Riding or lunging her out there is not a good idea , for now. If she got loose, the road is right there waiting to claim her.

You need to work on being able to move her off her food, let her come back to it, move her off. If you can move her off her food, then you can move her off the grass.

I dont' do much "hand grazing" jsut because it mixes two things that shouldnt be mixed; one: I want the horse to be focussed on me as I lead it, able to back up when I do, step it's shoulder over, move through a gate ahead of me or waith until I go through first, turn around in a small space and on and on. That means I don't allow him to do anything else except watch me and wait for the next direction.
If I let him graze, he will want to have his whole mind in grzing. Grazing is very pleasurable for horses, and they get into a "zone". You can pick them up and away from their grzing, yes, but it makes leading them not nearly as clean and clear as it is if you never, NEVER allow them to eat while on the lead .

Lately, my horse has been on a diet and is so hungry when I lead him that he tries constantly to snatch a mouthful. I have to be very firm to stop this. He has managed to get past me while I am working the gate latches, and this tells me that I have not truly impressed in his mind that it is VERBOTTEN. So, I've got work to do. I feel bad for him, knowing he desires the fresh grass so badly, but I will not lose the relationship for that. He is not starving by any means. He is "fluffy" , like me.
PunksTank and Leesa like this.
     
    09-10-2012, 10:23 PM
  #17
Foal
Great advice Tinyliny, and yes I will do this also. I know exactly what you mean when you say they get into a "Zone" That's where her head is today. Moving her off her food makes total sense too and I must do this first ting. Every ones advice makes sense and I very much appreciate it all :) Fluffy like me haha, I love that!!
     
    09-10-2012, 10:35 PM
  #18
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leesa    
Oh no offence taken at all. I understand your concerns. I have tried to educate myself as much as possible. I have bought books, videos, educational papers, but nothing prepares you for the real thing. No, I have a bit more sense than to think I can train with sugar cubes and love, but I get the message for sure. I have come this far with her, I could not imagine selling her. I made her a promise to do right by her, and that’s what I am trying to do. It was either that, or she would have been slaughtered. I could never have lived with myself for doing the latter. Many times I have thought to myself “What have I got into? “This was stupid”. This was because at the beginning, she didn’t trust me, and I didn’t trust her. I spend roughly, 10 hours a day with her, and this has been the only issue in a year. It is something that we need to work through, not sell her because of it. Like I said before, together we have come far in a short period of time. I plan on her always being in training, and I am not selfish enough to think I will not be in training too…because (only my opinion) as an owner of a horse, my education will be ongoing. When I say I cannot ride, that was a little vague of an answer, what I should have said was, I am not a seasoned rider, but I can ride per se. No I don’t hate you for the post, I think it was very considerate of you. One step at a time is how we are taking each day. I don’t have any fancy round pens or special tack, but I have patience and I do listen to what she is offering me and I either dismiss it, or accept it and use it to both of our advantages. Safety is paramount…I say this three times each morning, but try not to let her know I am thinking along these lines. I do believe I have been blessed in training her. She was a little bit sassy when she first came as a 2 yr old, but she will be 3 in a couple of weeks and is showing that she has mastered the lessons we do. This issue we have today, has been the first one that I could not get my head around. But thanks to some wonderful advice, I am more than willing to try to resolve this, before it gets worse. But, I will always try my best to be on guard, I think that would go for anyone who has been around horses for a lifetime, or for two minutes. Thanks for the reply and the time you took with my post, I do appreciate it.
I love your optimism and your attitude lady. Success isn't in playing a good hand well, but rather comes with playing a poor hand good.

Do me a favor and have someone close by....just in case.....

Three year olds don't have much patience. Ever heard of "the tree of knowledge"? Saddle up, tie up to a tree, and leave them there all day. Every once in awhile, get on for a short ride and then back to the tree of knowledge.

Lack of patience is what creates these type situations IMO.
Leesa likes this.
     
    09-10-2012, 10:41 PM
  #19
Trained
Leesa, reading your post I actually feel extremely nervous for you.
From what you have said, it is my understanding that she has not been broken professionally, and you are essentially 'playing it by ear'. A case of the blind leading the blind.
This is what worries me more than anything. Unfortunately, real horses are not like 'the Black Stallion' or 'Flicka'. They don't bond to you, then allow you to ride them without professional breaking, and try to protect you and love you.

Home breaking jobs are scary, and even more so when the 'breaker' has barely ridden a horse before. You may very easily wind up getting yourself killed.
It is my opinion, that anyone can get on an unbroken horse that is fairly quiet and unreactive on the ground. That's not a hugely big deal. Just like anyone can throw balls and tarps at the young horse and claim that it is bombproof or dead quiet.
The tough part, is when you have to put pressure on that horse, and when it decides to resist. THAT is where you run into trouble and at that point, you will make or break the horse.
It sounds to me as though this mare has not been placed under pressure while under saddle. Now, she is starting to show some attitude, and neither of you have any tactics or experience in how to overcome this. Most likely, you were unbalanced, gripping tightly with your legs and probably the reins, maybe screaming? This scares a horse more than anything, it gives the horse a reason to be scared. In this instance, the horse's attitude has changed from a little pig headedness, to outright fear and confusion.
As the rider, it is 100% up to us to provide confidence, safety, balance and direction to the partnerness. On a horse that is nervous and unbalanced, we must sit square in the saddle, as relaxed as humanely possible, look ahead and tell the horse what we WANT him to do, not what we don't want him to do.
This can be very difficult, and it's human nature when the horse gives you a bit of grief, to say 'No, don't do that'... but then how does the horse know what is has to do?

Right now, I would be working that mare in hand, preferably in long reins. Driving her EVERYWHERE. If she doesn't want to go, she'd cop a whallop on the backside.
Has she been mouthed? She needs to understand basic aids before you do anything. Stop, go and turn. If she doesn't get these perfectly every time, then that's your starting point. How will you control a horse that is bucking, when you can't even turn it or stop it in a controlled situation?

Is there any chance that you could go and do some work with a professional trainer? Maybe cleaning stalls/paddocks, feeding, rugging etc. in return for some lessons in basic handling with this mare?
I am very scared that if you do not seek professional assistance here, you will get yourself killed.
If you break a horse in badly, create an animal that is dangerous, and one day you need to sell it, you will have condemned it to death row, no matter how good your initial intentions.
     
    09-10-2012, 10:43 PM
  #20
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by gunslinger    
I love your optimism and your attitude lady. Success isn't in playing a good hand well, but rather comes with playing a poor hand good.

Do me a favor and have someone close by....just in case.....

Three year olds don't have much patience. Ever heard of "the tree of knowledge"? Saddle up, tie up to a tree, and leave them there all day. Every once in awhile, get on for a short ride and then back to the tree of knowledge.

Lack of patience is what creates these type situations IMO.
Thank you gunslinger, awesome pearls of wisdom...and I will have someone close by for sure.
     

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