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Tips for Jumping Green Horse

5K views 13 replies 9 participants last post by  horselovinguy 
#1 ·
Okay, well last week I posted a thread ranting about my hormonal, green, often pain-in-the-butt mare. Who I love. I think we've been doing fine jumping considering she wasn't really ridden before I got her, and when she was her owners let her get away with everything. So the jump is set at about 1'6" which, like I said, was pretty good for a horse that's just learning to jump- it's sure a long ways off from where we started at raised cavaletti:lol: However, every time she jumps the 1'6" she over jumps. Consistently. I'm kind of accustomed to it now and ride according- she probably jumps it at about 1'9"-2ft. I've gotten her to go over it once or twice only where she jumped the actual height and I was like, "Wow! That's so smooth and a nice, small jump!" So, as I said, I'm used to her over jumping it-I'd consider just raising the jump to the height she actually jumps but, knowing her, she'd just over jump that too. She used to just go straight over the tiny jumps at the beginning. But now sometimes she'll ditch to the side (which she used to do when I just rode flat work too) but I think the reason she's doing this is because I'm focusing on getting myself in position and keeping her at a steady pace (She likes to rush the jumps) that I never worried about getting her going straight- now I do and focus on getting her to go over the jump itself. Not a big deal. She also likes to be going at a nice, steady pace and a) rush or b) slow way down right before we go over a jump. When she speeds up, she does so so close to the jump that if I were to correct her I'd be worried about her unbalancing, so I hang on tight and slow her down afterwards. She's actually getting a lot better at this, but I've also been much more mindful of riding her at a consistent pace. When she slows down, I give her a squeeze but when she speeds up again we're almost right at the jump and she practically rears and jumps straight up. Not pleasant, but I can handle it. Once more, just working on riding her and when she starts to slow down squeeze her before she's going at a crawling pace. Now, I've shared her pretty much minor challenges she throws at me while teaching her to jump. And then on today's ride she was really just a pill. She over jumped the first jump like she normally does. Fine. Heading around to the second jump, I got into the position that would comfortably take me over the height she jumps at. But no, that would be too easy for Tessa. Instead, she jumped double the height of the jump (a friend was watching and showed me how much she over jumped it by) So that means she was jumping about 3 ft. Oh yeah, and she did one of her abrupt rear thingies too. It would've been fine if I had been prepared for that and riding for a bigger jump. As it was, I clung on for my life and lost both stirrups, but at least I stayed on. This was the first time in a very long time I've lost a stirrup or come close to falling off (I've never fallen off but I've had some close calls) and, unfortunately, I think I might've pulled something in my arm when she yanked my arms out of my sockets. Well, I can't say it didn't scare me a little. I had fallen on her neck and for several moments thought I was going off. But I had to keep jumping her, for myself's sake and so she knew she couldn't act like that. But then she refused all of them. I think part of it was I was a little less excited to jump her and have another one of her 3ft fiascos so I lowered the jumps and got her over them (which she overjumped- big surprise there) but at least I got my confidence back and took her over the 1'6" jump again. I wanted to end on a good note (it was 105 F out so we were both ready to be done) and concentrated on getting her over that jump correctly. Amazingly, she actually smoothly jumped the height of the jump and all was good. Yay! So, now the for actual question part...Do any of you have any tips for jumping a green horse like mine? I would love to have my trainer out and give some tips but her husband is on hospice so she hasn't been out to the stable for weeks, which is totally understandable. Any exercises you'd advise? I think putting cavaletti before the jumps would solve the rushing but not so much the slowing down. Oh, and I'm also riding her in a bitless bridle (not a hackamore- kind of hard to explain what it is) per advised by my trainer so that I can focus on riding by my seat and my own balance. I really want to show Tess a little for fun but I need her more predictable. At this rate, it could be awhile. So, any encouragement or helpful hints is really, really appreciated!
 
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#2 ·
I skimmed what you wrote (wall of text). Honestly it sound like you are over your head. Green horses will over jump, run out, and rush fences when they are nervous and unsure of what to do. You are not giving her confidence or setting her up correctly based on what you wrote. "Getting in to position" isn't something you do on any horse, never mind a green horse. You should be riding with your solid seat and allowing the horses jump to dictate how closed your hip angle becomes.

It sounds like you don't have a solid enough of a seat, don't know how to set her up properly to the fence, and you are scaring her. If your trainer isn't available, stop jumping until she is. If you must, work on ground poles or free jump her over small jumps so she can gain her own confidence.

Really, riding any jump below 2'3" is no different than a cavaletti. It's just a large canter stride.
 
#3 ·
I skimmed what you wrote (wall of text). Honestly it sound like you are over your head. Green horses will over jump, run out, and rush fences when they are nervous and unsure of what to do.
THIS THIS THIS.

A lot of people think that horses that consistently over jump are bored/very athletic/should be jumping higher... but that's definitely wrong. A horse that's 100% confident over fences knows how to judge distances and heights. They won't over exert themselves jumping twice the height of the fence, they can calculate just how high they need to jump to clear the obstacle in their path.

The short of it is that you need a trainer. Your horse is learning a lot of bad habits and you're putting her in positions where she's learning to fear the jump (refusals, darting away at the last moment, over jumping, etc.). It seems like you've skipped over a lot of the basics she needs to be a successful jumper.

I know you said your current trainer is busy, but if I was you I would either find another trainer or put jumping on hold until your trainer is available again.
 
#4 ·
The trainer has you riding in a bitless bridle so you can focus on yourself without confusing your horse. While that's all great, I don't know what part of that makes you think you are ready to teach said horse to jump. She sounds very unhappy. You also have a bad attitude towards it/her (she's being a pain, she did x y z). Just take a step back and slow down, there is NO shame whatsoever in that. In fact I would applaud you for doing so cause I know how hard it is.

Just wait for your trainer. If you feel you must do something just trot some poles. She's not predictable because she's green and nervous and you don't have basic control and training (running out, lack of steady speed).

I would also advise taking some lessons on a steady school horse to help you get a better feel of things.

FWIW when I taught my gelding to jump (as in just teaching him "this is what jumping is and it's ok to do in these circumstances) I put poles and slowly raised one...as in literally 6" or so. Cross rails, then a 12" vertical. Lunged and rode over it. Didn't do anymore beyond that because I don't know what I'm doing and don't want to mess him up! Just wanted him to know it was an OK thing to do.
 
#6 ·
A lot of information in many sentences.....

So, when you pay for lessons the trainer is on your dime.
Your time to work with you...not you "borrowing" her divided time...
You need some undivided time spent with you and your horse.
I'm confused when you tell of being a intern for some Olympic caliber rider then say you want to bring in a outside trainer but are forbidden, then you want to take lesson/schooling but trainer has no time for you...
I agree you need to slow down, stop and go back to basics with a watchful eye on you.
Having a decent position for riding and having a decent position for training are truly different. You don't have to "think" about preparing your riding position it flows cleanly together out of you in appropriate timing to the horse and what it is doing.
Your reactions to what the horse is doing needs to be second nature, automatic and you need an arsenal of knowledge to counter any wrong-doing or educate correctly, calmly and with reassurance to the horse.
That needs to be immediate and like breathing...a instantaneous reaction never something planned with a animal learning.
Riding horses that are already broke and trained is very different than riding a green, learning horse and one who is misbehaving under saddle {bucking}....

Sorry, but you need some better guidance and more watchful eyes while riding and "training" this horse.
If the horse is over-jumping there are ways to work with that, things to do and reason behind why it is happening.
Running out, not coming straight to a fence.....there is muscle memory here, besides memory of what you are asking that it sounds like is missing...holes in the foundation.
To me, and I'm no trainer, you need to go back and put in more time on body control. Adding riding at a set pace over cavaletti, getting and understanding this horses stride and teaching that stride to be steady long before you approach fences of any size...called cadence.
All horses can jump.
They do need to learn how to rate their speed and stride length, see a distance, pick up and place their feet, arc over a fence and land safely...then the rider needs to be of solid form over fences forget on the ground...a leader to teach the horse what to do, to ask for movement at the right time with ingrained cues the animal fully knows and understands as second nature.
The rider needs to be so secure you don't have to pre-plan and get yourself ready....it just happens. Your muscle memory...
"Schooling" a made animal is very different than "training" a green one...

You need more seat time yourself riding schoolies to learn what, how to quietly ask and tell what you want.
You need more seat time so you know without a doubt what properly doing something feels like...
Once you have that...then maybe you can work with a horse who is willing a she was, now confused and learning habits you will regret she is learning...
Time to slow down, go back to what you truly know.
Work with where your riding foundation is strong in and stop where you don't have the knowledge to teach correctly.
That is when you so need educated eyes of the right trainer assisting you. That is what lessons are truly about...gaining a bigger, more rounded foundation of knowledge so you can build and build on it.
With a weak foundation and holes...you are starting to see what will be.

Best of luck.
:runninghorse2:
jmo


 
#9 ·
I'm confused when you tell of being a intern for some Olympic caliber rider then say you want to bring in a outside trainer but are forbidden, then you want to take lesson/schooling but trainer has no time for you...
Oh, I was just replying to a previous post- about possibly bringing in another trainer while my main trainer can't come out. :) Even if it were allowed I wouldn't do it-just explaining my situation. And it's kind of a hard thing with my trainer- it's not so much that she doesn't have time for me so much as her husband is dying and she wants to spend the rest of the time she can with him and she has to take care of him. Thank you for your words of wisdom!
 
#8 ·
You need to stop jumping the horse and go right back to basics
Over jumping and rushing at fences is often rooted in fear of the jump - the horse thinks its got to give it loads of space in case it leaps up and bites him and the faster it goes the sooner its over and done with


Place poles randomly around the manège and just walk him over them and don't even think about jumping again until he's doing that calmly on a relaxed hand
 
#11 ·
No one is trying to 'reprimand' you. We are trying to help tho, and the only info we have is what you give us. Forgive us when we misread what you mean, we are not usually trying to be offensive (we do slip occasionally :D)

Some good advice given if you care to heed it.

IMO the horse unbalanced jumping. He is probably unbalanced, full stop. He sounds not quite ready yet for what you are doing. I would be doing more circles/serpentines and poles. Do some grid-work. Grids are set up similar to cavaletti but you have sidebars so they can't run out. You would normally have five at an in-and-out stride and a sixth after 1 stride, and you will have to look up the distances sorry I'm a bit rusty on them. The first five would be at about first cavaletti height (beginning) with the last one at top cavaletti height. Start with trotting so you get that smooth cadence that horselovinguy is telling you about. The horse should just 'hop' over the last cavaletti without increasing speed.

Only when you have nailed that and got a good steady balanced canter, should you attempt to take the grid at a canter where you should have good impulsion (but not speed) and in-out the first with one stride to the last. When that is going really well, you can put all the grid pole up a bit. Doing this you are setting the horse up to succeed, he gets to practice judging distance and height with little to go wrong to scare him. Horses are natural jumpers but a green horse is still getting used to that wobbly thing on his back (rider) and what to do when it goes the wrong way!!!

If you watch a seasoned jumper they have a very neat precise action with their feet. A novice often has feet all over the place, and screw on take-off or landing, making for a very awkward ride, never easy especially if the rider has limited experience as well.

To deal with the rushing. (This assumes you are continuing as you are). Ride circles in front of the jump, horse will probably rush as you come round in the direction of jump but keep on the circle until he doesnt rush, then smoothly turn to jump. This really does require good timing, because you don't want to suddenly jerk him round to the jump, you want it flowing, so some planning ahead would help here. Maybe start with a jump you can do from a trot.

Remember to give him a break from intense training. A road-ride or trail ride or quiet bareback ride make a change so he doesn't get sour. Every time you get on a horse you are teaching him things, so while you are learning it is best to have someone make sure you are not teaching undesirable habits. The higher a level you want to go the more you need a trainer. I know when I finally get another horse I need a trainer to retrain my sack-of-potatoes posture into something more elegant!!
 
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