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Tom Thumb bit.........

This is a discussion on Tom Thumb bit......... within the Horse Training forums, part of the Training Horses category
  • Straight vs slanted tom thumb bit
  • Mark rashid arentine bit

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    02-14-2012, 04:50 PM
  #31
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by trailhorserider    
But I know my horses and what works best for them.

Same here! That's why I hate it when people lump all types of a certain bit as evil or useless. Actually, I would never use many, many of the bits out there. Most of them have harsh mouth pieces or wayyyy too much leverage. When looking around at the tack shop, there are very few bits I would consider buying. It's kind of a drag! Like, wow, I would love to find a new bit, but all of these are too harsh for my horses. They just don't need all that leverage or a thin mouthpiece, etc.

I just don't know why folks hate on this one bit in particular, to the exclusion of all others. It's kind of illogical.
OMG, do the research and be enlightened!!! Look at Mark Rashid's article...it will your eyes.
COWCHICK77 and DrumRunner like this.
     
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    02-14-2012, 04:50 PM
  #32
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by trailhorserider    
But I know my horses and what works best for them.

Same here! That's why I hate it when people lump all types of a certain bit as evil or useless. Actually, I would never use many, many of the bits out there. Most of them have harsh mouth pieces or wayyyy too much leverage. When looking around at the tack shop, there are very few bits I would consider buying. It's kind of a drag! Like, wow, I would love to find a new bit, but all of these are too harsh for my horses. They just don't need all that leverage or a thin mouthpiece, etc.

I just don't know why folks hate on this one bit in particular, to the exclusion of all others. It's kind of illogical.
The Jr Cowhorse is may look similar to a TT but it's NOT in any way similar when using it...Actually look into facts about the bits before trying to come back and argue with someone.
NdAppy and GotaDunQH like this.
     
    02-14-2012, 04:51 PM
  #33
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyliny    
what is the name of that bit? And why the odd shape to the shanks? I cannot see why this would make any difference as compared with a simple curve, or even a straight line, angled the same .
It's just a different version of a swept back shank and has the same action as the same. The curve is for a horse that likes to "lip" a bit. I don't have a horse that does that, but I love this bit anyone. Not sure the name of it....
     
    02-14-2012, 04:52 PM
  #34
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by GotaDunQH    
Do some research and you'll see why. And it's not silly if you know about the actual structure and mechanics of a bit and the way a horse's mouth is conformed. I'm not talking AT ALL about the hands holding the reins...I am speaking from a scientific/architectural aspect. Mark Rashid wrote an EXCELLENT article on how cra*ppy these bits are. If you google it, you will find it.

And no, it is not dumb....and you have an axe to grind with me anyone for some reason, so I'm not even going to comment on that. What IS dumb is not looking AT A BIT FROM THE ACTUAL DESIGN standpoint...EVEN before it is put in a horse's mouth and hands are at the ends of the reins. The makers of TT's have done some really sly marketing to make people UNKNOWLEDGEABLE in bits....believe it's a good bit, merely because it has a jointed mouthpiece. Anyone who TRULY knows bits, knows these are a piece of do-do.
I have nothing against you personally. I don't happen to like western pleasure so I think we clashed on a past thread about that. I just don't see how when there are so many bad bits in the world, this one gets singled out. On the whole scale of evil bits, this one is much less evil. Actually, and maybe it's because I ride on a loose rein, my horses do great in them. So I feel like I need to defend quite a decent bit when others are always knocking it. Because otherwise newbies will come along and think they are evil because of what a few people say. I feel I need to counter-balance that.
     
    02-14-2012, 04:54 PM
  #35
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrumRunner    
The Jr Cowhorse is may look similar to a TT but it's NOT in any way similar when using it...Actually look into facts about the bits before trying to come back and argue with someone.
Exactly! The Jr Cowhorse bit is nowhere near the TT in it's design, it's mechanics, and it's action in a horse's mouth. The Jr Cowhorse is widely respected and used.
     
    02-14-2012, 04:55 PM
  #36
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrumRunner    
The Jr Cowhorse is may look similar to a TT but it's NOT in any way similar when using it...Actually look into facts about the bits before trying to come back and argue with someone.
Actually, you're right. It's harsher. I don't own a single twisted wire bit. I did own one years ago and sold it. My horses don't need anything with that much bite.
     
    02-14-2012, 04:55 PM
  #37
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by GotaDunQH    
OMG, do the research and be enlightened!!! Look at Mark Rashid's article...it will your eyes.
I've read it a couple of times.
     
    02-14-2012, 04:56 PM
  #38
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by trailhorserider    
I have nothing against you personally. I don't happen to like western pleasure so I think we clashed on a past thread about that. I just don't see how when there are so many bad bits in the world, this one gets singled out. On the whole scale of evil bits, this one is much less evil. Actually, and maybe it's because I ride on a loose rein, my horses do great in them. So I feel like I need to defend quite a decent bit when others are always knocking it. Because otherwise newbies will come along and think they are evil because of what a few people say. I feel I need to counter-balance that.
But I do other things besides WP! I do plain old riding with my horses, and I would never use a TT! If you want a well trained horse that uses it's body correctly NO MATTER WHAT the discipline....you won't get it with a TT and you will do your horse such a disservice by putting that bit in it's mouth, without even using your reins!
     
    02-14-2012, 04:59 PM
  #39
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by trailhorserider    
I have nothing against you personally. I don't happen to like western pleasure so I think we clashed on a past thread about that. I just don't see how when there are so many bad bits in the world, this one gets singled out. On the whole scale of evil bits, this one is much less evil. Actually, and maybe it's because I ride on a loose rein, my horses do great in them. So I feel like I need to defend quite a decent bit when others are always knocking it. Because otherwise newbies will come along and think they are evil because of what a few people say. I feel I need to counter-balance that.
A newbie in a TT? Geez....what do newbies to but take up contact and hang on a horse's face? They have not learned hand finesse AT ALL or what hands are REALLY for. Sorry, you and I (and others on here) will never agree on the TT. But that's ok....
     
    02-14-2012, 05:05 PM
  #40
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by GotaDunQH    
Exactly! The Jr Cowhorse bit is nowhere near the TT in it's design, it's mechanics, and it's action in a horse's mouth. The Jr Cowhorse is widely respected and used.
So maybe the difference is in what we call a tom thumb.

This is evil:

http://www.horseforum.com/attachment...omthumbbit.jpg

This is a quality bit with a good reputation:

http://images.rods.com/RS/SR/Product/214341_L.jpg

Are they not both basically straight shanked and have a single jointed mouthpiece? So that little bit of gag action is what make sit so much milder?

What about this, is this evil or golden?

http://www.discountwesternwear.com/i...ts/390_402.jpg

Or this:

http://www.onestopequineshop.com/ass...ges/218008.jpg

Are all we are talking about is nuances in the shape of the shank? Because I lump them all in the "tom thumb" catergory. Maybe I should just start calling them all argentine snaffles. Because apparently they don't have a bad reputation.

Now I can sort of see the argument that another joint in the center is better for the horse because it has less nutcracker action. But that also goes for a ring snaffle and a jr cowhorse as well. But that's not what you guys are saying. You are saying something about the tom thumb wayyy different than this: http://images.rods.com/RS/SR/Product/214341_L.jpg

Other than gag action, I don't see what makes one evil and one kosher.
     

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