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Tom Thumb bit.........

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  • Using tom thumb on a mule ?
  • Horse bits mouthpiece upside down.

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    02-14-2012, 05:09 PM
  #41
Yearling
The first bit is a TT, the others are not. A TT has a straight shank (absolutely STRAIGHT with no deviation from end to end) and looks EXACTLY like the first bit. The others are different in many ways.
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    02-14-2012, 05:12 PM
  #42
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by GotaDunQH    
A newbie in a TT? Geez....what do newbies to but take up contact and hang on a horse's face? They have not learned hand finesse AT ALL or what hands are REALLY for. Sorry, you and I (and others on here) will never agree on the TT. But that's ok....
I started out western, neck reining, with basically no contact. I think that was a good way to start. YEARS went by before I learned about contact and started riding two-handed. So by that time I had my balance. But that seems backwards from the way most people start out. I agree that there is a definite problem with newbies hanging on the bit. Maybe newbies should start out western and neck reining.

And we can agree to disagree. Maybe I am dense, but to me the difference between a tom thumb, an argentine snaffle, and a jr. Cowhorse is just a few nuances. I think they basically function the same.

Oh, and until you mentioned the straight shanks, I had forgotten about he pelham. Is a pelham a tom thumb? The shanks are very straight. Or does the ring the bottom rein attaches to give it more of a argentine snaffle effect?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...Pelham_bit.jpg

So basically, any curb with a broken mouth piece needs a slight sweep to the shanks to be kosher? That's all we are arguing about?
     
    02-14-2012, 05:24 PM
  #43
Green Broke
I got to tell you something slightly off-topic but I found it amusing. I went riding with a friend the other day. We trailered out and I forgot one very important thing- my bridle!

So I ask my friend if she happens to have a spare bridle. She has two to choose from. A correction bit with a fair amount of leverage, and a tom thumb with no curb strap. What a choice! Well, I had never ridden my mare in a correction bit, although I owned one briefly with another horse and he hated it.

Then there is this tom thumb with no curb strap. And what's more, the mouthpiece is upside down and it can't be changed easily because of the way the bridle is put together. Guess what I chose? The upside down tom thumb with no curb strap! Not ideal by a long shot, but I figure it's milder than the correction bit. And this is my horse that prefers a solid curb bit.

So I rode it in and she did surprisingly great! Who would have thought? Never in a million years would it have been something I picked to ride in, but it ended up working out great.
     
    02-14-2012, 05:36 PM
  #44
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by trailhorserider    
I got to tell you something slightly off-topic but I found it amusing. I went riding with a friend the other day. We trailered out and I forgot one very important thing- my bridle!

So I ask my friend if she happens to have a spare bridle. She has two to choose from. A correction bit with a fair amount of leverage, and a tom thumb with no curb strap. What a choice! Well, I had never ridden my mare in a correction bit, although I owned one briefly with another horse and he hated it.

Then there is this tom thumb with no curb strap. And what's more, the mouthpiece is upside down and it can't be changed easily because of the way the bridle is put together. Guess what I chose? The upside down tom thumb with no curb strap! Not ideal by a long shot, but I figure it's milder than the correction bit. And this is my horse that prefers a solid curb bit.

So I rode it in and she did surprisingly great! Who would have thought? Never in a million years would it have been something I picked to ride in, but it ended up working out great.
She had the bit on upside down and no curb strap? LOL...yikes! Did you tell her it was upside down? You obviously have a very forgiving horse to ride in a bridle put together than way (and that was a compliment.) Shanked bits NEED a curb strap...or just use a snaffle bit. Anyway....correction bits are much milder than you think, but your horse needs to get used to one...because they offer tongue release/relief where a single jointed mouth does not. I don't mind a solid port mouth, as long as the shanks swivel and curve back.
     
    02-14-2012, 05:40 PM
  #45
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by trailhorserider    
I started out western, neck reining, with basically no contact. I think that was a good way to start. YEARS went by before I learned about contact and started riding two-handed. So by that time I had my balance. But that seems backwards from the way most people start out. I agree that there is a definite problem with newbies hanging on the bit. Maybe newbies should start out western and neck reining.

And we can agree to disagree. Maybe I am dense, but to me the difference between a tom thumb, an argentine snaffle, and a jr. Cowhorse is just a few nuances. I think they basically function the same.

Oh, and until you mentioned the straight shanks, I had forgotten about he pelham. Is a pelham a tom thumb? The shanks are very straight. Or does the ring the bottom rein attaches to give it more of a argentine snaffle effect?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...Pelham_bit.jpg

So basically, any curb with a broken mouth piece needs a slight sweep to the shanks to be kosher? That's all we are arguing about?
Basically...yes. I straight shank has NO forgiveness, the bit is always at play. And the slightest hand movement, that su*cker cranks in the horses mouth. Even riding a horse on a loose rein, whether it be on the trail or in the show pen...some rein contact wuill be required. So if it you have a bit that is ALWAYS at play even if you have no contact, just imagine when you take up contact. Now, snaffle bits are the exception, because they are MADE for continual contact as there is no leverage and "pulling down" effect with them, and no curb strap to tighten on sensitive nerves.
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    02-14-2012, 05:56 PM
  #46
Teen Forum Moderator
If I can interject, I can share why I very much dislike the TT. Obviously I dislike the mechanics and construction of the bit but my main reasons (that I've come across in real life, not on the internet) for hating it are as follows:

- People think it's a "snaffle" due to marketing and direct rein in it because "it's a snaffle with more brakes!!"
- People think it's the best bit for starting horses in, since it's a "snaffle". I feel this sets the horse up for failure down the road when/if any kind of finesse is wanted.
- People put this bit on horses ridden by beginners because "it's so gentle". They let these beginners pull and pull on the horse's mouth because "the TT is gentle"
- My final reason is because this bit is in common use because it's "so nice". If it were more rare, like a twisted wire bit or a mule bit (around here) is, I wouldn't care about it at all beyond disliking it.


If you want to use a TT and you neckrein in it, never direct rein, have a loose rein 90% of the time, and your horse likes this bit then you're doing it totally right and I have no bone to pick with you.
I mean, I've ridden horses in a TT many times but they were horses that couldn't have been better at neckreining and I stayed 100% out of their mouth. For them, I don't have a problem with the TT. I still think there's probably something out there that's better on a horse-comfort level, but if the TT works well, there's not too much of a reason to change it.

My other factor (that I mentioned in my list) for being adamant against the TT is that it's in such wide circulation (and so many people are misinformed about it). If the Mule Bit was in wide circulation instead of the TT and people had the same feelings toward it that many do about the TT, you can bet that I would be as anti-Mule Bit as I am anti-TT. Or, if twisted wire anythings were around more, I would have a similar cow about them.
But, to me, the mere fact that I had a previous instructor (who was well educated in most other things) lecture me about the evils of a twisted wire snaffle I had found, then advise me in the same sentence to get a TT because "TT's are like snaffles, with more brakes!! They're the gentlest possible!" says that there's a problem with education regarding this bit.

Truthfully, I wouldn't care if TT's were super uncommon but since they seem to the "go-to" bit of most western trail riders, I think those riders should be at least properly educated about the bit they're using. If their horses truly like that bit and the riders respect the TT and stay off it, then I really have no issue.


That all being said, I really am not a fan of broken curbs of any style. I haven't had much expierence with many broken curbs but the experience I have had was always negative. I would never advise anyone to get a broken mouthed curb. I much prefer a solid mouthpiece on curb bits.
     
    02-14-2012, 06:06 PM
  #47
Yearling
^ wow best post on here!!! Thanks for that post!
     
    02-15-2012, 01:13 AM
  #48
Teen Forum Moderator
Thanks GotaDunQH!

Also, THR, I hope you don't think I was bashing you or anything.
Personally, from what you've said about how you ride, I think you're doing just fine using a TT since it's working for you and your horses. You fit firmly into my "more power to you" category.
You're educated about the bit you use, you respect it for what it is, and I have absolutely no bone to pick with that. :)
     
    02-15-2012, 10:16 AM
  #49
Foal
Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corporal    
A horse can grab the snaffle or the curb and run away with you just as easily. It is ALL in the training. Just as an aside, I used a rubber-mouthed Pelham to fix my 5yo QH's head tossing that he was doing with an eggbutt snaffle. You're not supposed to switch from a snaffle to a curb, than back to a (in this case, a full-check) snaffle, but this horse was at a rescue and many uneducated hands rode him before I adopted him 2 years ago. I fixed the problem without punishing the horse.
Now, I won't need to train him to a curb, but I will trust his "brakes" bc he slows and stops well with the snaffle. You REALLY trust your horse if you can ride with a halter and a lead. I never tried it until I had so many hours in on my QH "Ro Go Bar" (1982-1009, RIP) that I could cheat periodically with him, like riding back to the trailer at an event and I didn't want to bother bridling him.
I trained my boy in a clinton anderson style training halter with 8 ft. Lead for about 3 years. He side passes, backs, stops, and leg yeilds very well in just a halter and lead ( have never done it outside our comfort zone[2-3 miles of private trails, and lots of arena time], though, not that brave) I began " bridling with just a side pull, and then moved to a d-ring. We have been using the dring 3 to 4 times a week, but I am having difficulty maintaining a a vertical headset. I have never trained a horse with a curb, nor do I have much experience riding in one.............
     
    02-15-2012, 10:21 AM
  #50
Yearling
In my younger years I thought the TT was a great bit. That was some 40 or so years ago, I am now 62. I have since learned over the years that the TT is one of the most severe bits on the market. In the physics of the mechanics of the TT it has the most "nutcracker" effects on the bars the tongue and roof of the horse's mouth. The short, straight shanks and short purchase(measurement from mouth piece to bridle rings) and hinged ends(that cause the pinching of the corners of the horse's mouth) is what makes the bit severe.

After starting a young horse in a true loose ring snaffle bridle and making progress I have switched to a side-pull bridle with loose ring snaffle. The side-pull bridle is similiar, but not exactally like a bosal hackamore.
     

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