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Tom Thumb bit.........

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  • Tom thumb spade bit
  • Fitting a spade horse bit

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    02-15-2012, 10:21 AM
  #51
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by GotaDunQH    
There is ALWAYS a way around using a TT. Just don't use it. Those bits should be gathered up, put on a boat, and sent to a deserted island never to return.
lol, sorry just cracked me up.......
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    02-15-2012, 11:35 AM
  #52
Green Broke
Trailhorserider and I have clashed on this one before :)

So I am going to explain the best I can about balance of a bit and how the swept back of the shanks contributes to the bit and how it balances on the bars, neutral position and engaged. I don't have a TT bit so I used some bits I own for the pics but hopefully you all will get the idea.

I am guessing if you were to balance a TT bit on your first finger and pinky to simulate the horses bars it would hang exactly straight up and down or pretty close. If a bit is balanced in this manner than the horse has to be very flexed at the poll or collected to keep the bit in the neutral position. If he has his nose out, the weight of the shanks and the reins automatically engage the action of the bit.

The first bit below has the swept back shanks and you can see it balanced on my fingers that a horse doesn't have to collected or flexed at the poll to keep the bit neutral. The short shanks have minimal leverage and the independence of the shanks allows for direct reining.

The second bit is obviously a more advanced bit with more leverage and fixed cheeks but you can see from the balance of bit it still does not require a lot of flex or collection to keep it neutral. The port is still low and it provides tongue relief.

The third is a spade bit which is still balanced in a manner that it doesn't require a ton of collection or flex at the poll. But the angle of spoon comes into play now. But fitting a spade to a horse is a whole other subject..

The fourth bit I imagine would be balanced quite a bit like a TT I imagine. It is straight up and down in the neutral position and therfor the horse would have to have a very flexed poll or ride very up in the bit to pack it. Even though the mouthpeice doesn't look severe I would consider this bit for a very advanced horse with an excellent headset.

It is not just the mouthpeices or the size of the ports and shanks that make a bit severe, you have to take into consideration the balance of the bit.
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    02-15-2012, 12:10 PM
  #53
Green Broke
Sorry trailhorserider, it wasn't you that we had a discussion about the TT in another thread, someone else!
     
    02-15-2012, 12:38 PM
  #54
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by GotaDunQH    
^ wow best post on here!!! Thanks for that post!

Is this the bit you posted earlier? Weaver SS Jointed Swivel Cavalry Loose Cheek Bit - Horse.com

I really liked the bit so I had to hunt it down!

And on the TT.. I've used one before on my Perch/TB cross mare, never had a problem with it.
     
    02-15-2012, 05:20 PM
  #55
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evansk    
Is this the bit you posted earlier? Weaver SS Jointed Swivel Cavalry Loose Cheek Bit - Horse.com

I really liked the bit so I had to hunt it down!

And on the TT.. I've used one before on my Perch/TB cross mare, never had a problem with it.
Yep..that's the bit. It's a great bit. I really like the mouthpiece on that bit and the swivel shanks. You can also get it at www.sstack.com. That same mouthpiece comes in different shape shanks....like a swept back grazing shank.
     
    02-15-2012, 05:27 PM
  #56
Green Broke
I own a TT. Two guys I day work for ride their horses in them. They are nice horses. Other than that, I don't use it.

CC77 - Good photos to show balance in relation to head set. I don't think it gets enough consideration in general.
     
    02-15-2012, 05:36 PM
  #57
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by boots    
I own a TT. Two guys I day work for ride their horses in them. They are nice horses. Other than that, I don't use it.

CC77 - Good photos to show balance in relation to head set. I don't think it gets enough consideration in general.

Thanks boots!
     
    02-15-2012, 06:33 PM
  #58
Showing
I have tried a TT and, while my horse didn't have a problem with it (I can ride him in just about anything), I hated the lack of feel that it had. There was no subtlety with it, no nuances to my cues, it was all very blunt and rigid. I can compare it to trying to put in stitches with a sharp stick and kite string. You might get the job done if you really know what you're doing, but it won't be pretty.

I greatly value the amount of feel my horses have and I expect a great deal from them. While the bits that I generally use aren't those big, expensive, custom jobs that some do, I make sure that the mechanics of my bits are suitable to the horses that I ride and the goals that I set for them.

This is strictly a personal preferance, but I thoroughly dislike bits that have shanks and a broken "snaffle" mouth, just because I don't like the feel of them. I much prefer a good ported curb, either solid or with a barrel. I like being able to pick up one rein to fine tune a movement without the entire bit collapsing on the horse's face.

Here are some good, inexpensive bits that are much more suitable for a horse's first experience with a curb bit than a TT could ever hope to be....
254330- Partrade Black Satin Bit

Saddles Tack Horse Supplies - ChickSaddlery.com Reiner WIde Port Swivel Shank Bit

Saddles Tack Horse Supplies - ChickSaddlery.com Kelly Copper Inlay Arch Mouth Bit 5"

239091- Partrade Cowboy Collection Short Slotted Futurity Bit

796- Reinsman 7" Steel Reiner Billy Allen Mouth

This one is really mild because the shanks are about as short as I've ever found on a curb bit.
Saddles Tack Horse Supplies - ChickSaddlery.com Francois Gauthier Antique Hinged Futurity Bit
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    02-15-2012, 08:30 PM
  #59
Green Broke
Saddles Tack Horse Supplies - ChickSaddlery.com Reiner WIde Port Swivel Shank Bit

I just recommended this bit to a friend.

I like it, it is similar to a John Isreal, as far as the mouthpiece is concerned, but without the price tag.
     
    02-15-2012, 09:58 PM
  #60
Green Broke
Very good posts guys!

Cowchick77, I have a question on bit balance that I always wondered about. I have done the same thing you show in your pictures (gorgeous bits by the way!), which is hold the bits in my hand to see the balance. But what I have always wondered is if once you add a headstall and reins, doesn't that change the balance? Or not?

I have actually never tried it, but I am picturing a heavy set of reins dipping the bit forward and perpendicular. Or a bulky headstall and light reins doing the opposite. What do you think? Doesn't the balance change once the headstall and reins are added?
     

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