What a stunning foal in your avatar, Ghostwind!
My thoughts to your first post above were along the lines of what beau wrote, except for quitting for the day(necessarily - sounds like it was one of those days that wouldn't hurt to end tho). It is important to repeat lessons over & over to get them really understood, but the horse does need to be negatively reinforced for any 'Good' behaviour, which in this case, especially considering the long & stressful 'session', would be quitting everything for a stress free break. I don't think 'quitting' needs to mean forget it for the rest of the day - there's nothing to say you can't do 20 more 3 minute sessions if you've got the daylight, so long as there are stress free breaks in between. So for your first session, I reckon 30 mins is WAY too long, but you could have spent an hour, done 6 @ 5 minute sessions no worries, done something else easy & fun you've been working on in between.
I suspect you've mistaken 'calmness' for relaxed & not stressed. Considering the battle you had, I think it's very unlikely for it to be fear-free. She may be apparently 'calm' because she's actually 'shut down' mentally from too much stress, which would also explain the "when you try to make her do it long enough she will get dangerous." - does that feel like it's 'suddenly, out of the blue, for no reason'? What exactly is her bodylanguage in this situation? How's her breathing? Is her eye alert or does she seem 'sleepy'?
Remember I don't know about her handling, only what you've told here, so here's what I'm *guessing* happened...
You did the first(?) lesson on loading & all went well. I suspect that after half an hour, there may have been some bad, frustrated feeling that became associated too. Don't know whether the mare had a problem backing out at that point(many horses do), but she got through it.
So she's had one lesson with one person. She'll need repetitions to really learn it, and as horses don't generalise very well, esp with only a single lesson, she won't generalise that just because it was ok with you & in this situation it means it's OK & she should do it for anyone.
Next day, with a different person, possibly different methods, mannerisms, level of trust between horse & human, etc, it didn't work. Who knows whether the owner was abrupt & hussled her on with a lunge whip, whether the horse was punished for stepping back at the wrong time, took a wrong step & frightened herself about it... but she decided it wasn't safe to back out. Getting confrontational about it only caused her to resist further, stress more & 'shut down' to block out more stress.
So... going back to the basics in a non-confrontational way with beau's sort of approach should get her over her problems, but be aware now she's got them, it will probably take a bit of patience. I'd also ensure anyone else who wants to play with her while she's so green uses a similar approach.
....& can't help commenting on some other comments...
I am guessing that the horse was not actually being stubborn and deliberately trying to displease you. She likely was nervous .... overwhelmed and just mentally shut down.
Ezacily! There's always a reason for the 'stubbornness' & it's not spite or such... unless we're talking about humans!
But Sharpie, while I think the leave them to it generally works, I have seen someone do precisely that only to come out find the horse still 'stuck' the next morning, because it was just too terrified to back up. I've also seen(well, heard the commotion from the front of the float, saw the result) a horse somehow rear up & turn around in a single float because he didn't think he could go backwards.... took a bit of chiro work to get him over that.
I guess I don't attribute horses enough ego to need to 'prove' a point by refusing to back off a trailer for extended periods of time- rather I assume there has to be some elemental reason they feel like they 'can't.' Fear, pain, etc.
Also agree 1000%.
Originally Posted by GhostwindAppaloosa
... I've always operated under the repetition method. I don't think a horse accuratly learns something unless done a million times.
I don't agree. When the energy is high, and timing perfect, a horse can learn in a single instant; especially the sensitive horse.
...When SHE decided she was done being ridden she would just stop... and refuse to move. If you annoyed her enough to move forward she woudl rear and buck.
This sounds as if she was never given a "release." To keep asking the same questions over and over and over again is a form of punishment, I think.
Where did that quote come from - couldn't find the original of what Beling posted? Anyway... maybe not a million
but I do agree that horses need repetition to really learn something well. Yes, they may get the idea after the first time if the consequence/association was memorable enough, but to generalise a lesson(eg. don't just do that this time for me, but do it whenever asked, for anyone, in any environment..... & don't do it when you please without being cued), it does take repetition & being taught in different ways/environments.
Missed the bit about stopping when being ridden. My first thought about that is same as Sharpie's too. But if not that, assuming her brain's functioning normally, I'd also be thinking there's a physical problem that hasn't remitted &/or it's all got too much for her, so she's got to the point of trying different behaviours, such as shutting down or exploding.