Trainer that I just came across on the internet. What do you think? - The Horse Forum
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post #1 of 37 Old 01-11-2017, 01:26 PM Thread Starter
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Trainer that I just came across on the internet. What do you think?

Hey guys, I just came across this guy on the internet and found found his methods quite interesting. It is a bit of a long video, but if you have time to watch it, tell me what you think about it. Like it? Don't like it? And, why.

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post #2 of 37 Old 01-11-2017, 02:07 PM
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Digesting all that Getting a tummy ache


But, Shazam! I want that horse! What a saint.
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post #3 of 37 Old 01-11-2017, 02:42 PM Thread Starter
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Digesting all that Getting a tummy ache


But, Shazam! I want that horse! What a saint.
Yes, he does seem to be a good boy and beautiful too.

This guy seems to be promoting the idea of the reins (which he makes). I guess his idea is that the horse will learn to be on the bit and collect without the interference of a rider first.

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post #4 of 37 Old 01-11-2017, 03:02 PM
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Honestly I like it. It makes sense. And as someone who's starting my first colt, this would make it a lot easier to teach collection and eradicate rider error, since ive taught collection before. It was very informative, I learned a lot! The trainer himself seems very calm and nice and slow.
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post #5 of 37 Old 01-11-2017, 03:22 PM
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well, it's true that he may 'fight' a rider more than a fixed thing. but, to me, the reason you HAVE reins is to create a dialogue, which is taking and giving and engages some active thinking on both human and horse parts. I know you can use the idea of having a fixed thing against which the horse soon learns that fighting is useless, like hard tying , beyond that, I've never used nor been encourage to use ANY fixed training aid, like a standing martingale or a training fork. wait, I take that back, I did used a German martingale way back when I was first taking lessons.

the horse did not look all that comfortable, and I think while there was not a lot of tension in the reins, the bit was engaging. the horse will become really sore and tired if forced to carry it's head in a position it is not used to for a long time. If the neck is pulled up into an 'arch', which people think is so pretty, instead of just softly flexing at the poll, in time, it will develop large muscles around the third vertebrae. it may also develop a dip in front of the withers, if the horse drops the base of his neck down between his shoulders as a way to avoid the bit. it is, in effect, making the "S" shape of the horse's neck become tighter and more severely curved on both halves.

I think what should have been done is spend some time with the rider, getting HIM to sit better and learn how to 'talk' to the hrose through the reins. if the hrose 'fights', well, it means you aren't talking right.
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post #6 of 37 Old 01-11-2017, 03:25 PM
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oh, and this isn't any sort of NEW method. people have been doing this for a long time; tying a hrose to his own saddle to get him to learn to accept and give to the bit.

again, that horse looked like a really nice horse who would learn to accept the bit just fine were a human being on the other end, if that human being had decent hands.
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post #7 of 37 Old 01-11-2017, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by WhattaTroublemaker View Post
Honestly I like it. It makes sense. And as someone who's starting my first colt, this would make it a lot easier to teach collection and eradicate rider error, since ive taught collection before. It was very informative, I learned a lot! The trainer himself seems very calm and nice and slow.
Oy, just found a mistake and it's too late to fix. Since I've NEVER taught collection before***
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post #8 of 37 Old 01-11-2017, 03:54 PM
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I agree with tiny, I felt a little uncomfortable watching it, the horse did not seem at all soft and relaxed. True collection required muscle buildup over the whole topline and I don't think it can be forced at all through just fixing the head in one position in one session. I felt the trainer was trying to force the horse to make the effort rather than the unskilled rider. The horse can teach itself to carry a frame through tension but regular riding like that with a rider who does not have the balance or connection to achieve it properly will do the horse no favours, it seemed like a massive shortcut.

I ride dressage, where there is a constant contact that the horse is ridden up in to. From what I have seen and read, I understand the western concept of collection to be similar in terms of taking weight on the hind legs but different in the way that give and submission through the head should be achieved on a loose rein. In that video I saw a horse that was evasive because of discomfort, rather than showing the soft understanding of what the bit is asking that I see in other western style horse and rider combos. Of course this is from a English perspective so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong!
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post #9 of 37 Old 01-11-2017, 03:57 PM
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I also didn't think much of his solution to the bit banging the wolf teeth - a cavesson is not for keeping the horse on the bit, it should be loose and simply for appearance or to allow the rider to attach other tack. I wouldn't put a tight noseband on a horse who obviously showed discomfort in his teeth, a better solution would be to pull the teeth before messing around with more equipment

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post #10 of 37 Old 01-11-2017, 04:12 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by celestejasper13 View Post
I also didn't think much of his solution to the bit banging the wolf teeth - a cavesson is not for keeping the horse on the bit, it should be loose and simply for appearance or to allow the rider to attach other tack. I wouldn't put a tight noseband on a horse who obviously showed discomfort in his teeth, a better solution would be to pull the teeth before messing around with more equipment
Yeah, I was thinking the same. I don't think he is using the cavesson because of the wolf teeth though, but in spite of it. I always thought the use of a cavesson was to keep the horse from opening his jaw to wide to evade the bit.

I'm pretty much on the fence about this technique. I can see some advantages but also see where the flaws are as well. The horse is collecting (as in getting his hind end underneath himself) but unsure of no give. I guess that is where the idea of rubber reins (or bungees) come in at.

I have seen dressage trainers using the idea of a fixed rein but with the rider holding them. JP Giacomini comes to mind.

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