Trainers Riding Their Student's Horse - Page 3
 
 

       The Horse Forum > Training Horses > Horse Training

Trainers Riding Their Student's Horse

This is a discussion on Trainers Riding Their Student's Horse within the Horse Training forums, part of the Training Horses category
  • Trying to break my pony and he doesn't like legs at y

Like Tree207Likes

 
LinkBack Thread Tools
    09-13-2012, 02:35 PM
  #21
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4everiding    
...If your horse is out to your hands and is creating the contact and you squeeze your horse tighter, the front door is no longer open and he won't run...
Hmmm. Depending on how he's been trained, you may just piss him off. If he believes you are telling him to both speed up and slow down at the same time, he's going to get confused. He can be trained to be ridden that way, but it might require some understanding and breaking things down into smaller pieces first.

I have no idea how Cinny has been trained. I'm just noting that MY horses were not happy about ANY lower leg contact that wasn't a specific cue until I rode them for a while and they learned light contact was normal for me. And Trooper still rides differently for me than for others, because he has learned it as being one of my oddities rather than being the 'new normal'.
     
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
    09-13-2012, 02:41 PM
  #22
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsms    
Amount of leg may vary with the horse's training. A lot of western trained horses are not used to having constant contact with the lower leg, and they respond by going faster - which is what they think they are supposed to do. And when I ride my horse with our Circle Y, I don't have contact with my lower leg because the saddle tree pushes my leg away.

Trooper was trained on a ranch. He was also spurred quite hard on a ranch he was loaned to, and it took several years of riding before even very light touches of the lower leg didn't automatically cause a rapid increase in speed. Mia was trained by a western trainer (yes, she got her training 3 years after I bought her, but that is another story). However, I'm the one who has ridden her out. Riding her in an Aussie-style saddle, I normally have a light contact with my lower leg. She knows me and doesn't worry until the light contact becomes a nudge.

When I ride Trooper, I try to remember he doesn't like feeling my lower leg next to him. And I think it is reasonable for a teacher to get on a horse and find out where the horse is at in its training rather than expecting it to be trained her way. More of my humble opinion...
You triggered a thought with this. Cinny's only training before I got him was a typical Western 30 day BREAKING. I don't know who did it, or what they did. I do know when I got Cinny he was very sensitive around the flanks and it took me almost 2 years to get him to even relax a little bit with a bit in his mouth..and was a horrible teeth gritter.

This is his history as told by his previous owner. 1) She bought his dam when he was a few months old and he was included in the deal and just 3 or 4 months old. He was later weaned and put in a dry lot with other horses. He stayed there until he was 6 years old. They got him out, gelded him and sent him out for a typical Western 30 day training. They didn't have time for him and put him back in the dry lot. The next summer they decided to try him as a trail horse. Broken bones were involved, and not his. The next spring (2010) He was sold to me as an untrained pasture puff that I later found out had a really bad reputation.

He has only ever bucked with a person on him since I got him, one time. It was a couple of months ago when we were at the fairgrounds the night before a show. He wouldn't pick up a correct lead and I kept at him until he did it. He took one stride, gave me a hard buck and stopped dead in his tracks and glared at me. I got off, untacked and checked him head to toe...he had a cut on his heel bulb I had missed when grooming. He was only trying to tell me he was hurt.

He has always had a different way of doing things, or reacting to things than other horses. He isn't a bully, but he refuses to be bullied too. If you ask, if he understands what you are asking he will try his heart out to do it. If he doesn't understand he will grit his teeth, toss his head, turn and glare at you or try to anticipate or guess. If try to bully him to do something (get in a trailer is a good example) and yank on him, use a crop on him, yell.... watch out because he will explode back at you tenfold. He also doesn't forget a person and he is very opinionated about who he likes. He isn't bad or mean to people he doesn't like, he will just play tricks on them.

Maybe that's why I feel like I would like a trainer to get on him. Maybe I'm just stuck up and think I'm the only person who understands my horse and the way he works...or that you have to get on him to understand how his brain works. I don't know.

Maybe I should just send him to someone to work with for a month or two and take myself out of the equation, and then have that person give me lessons with him.
     
    09-13-2012, 02:41 PM
  #23
Yearling
It sounds to me as if you are asking your horse to do things he hasn't been set up properly to do. You need to go back to working with him at a walk. The foundation has to be there to build on. Set him up for success.
     
    09-13-2012, 02:49 PM
  #24
Yearling
Sounds as if the poor lad missed out on a lot of the basic training youngsters get. I'd say you may want to find a really sympathetic trainer and backtrack until he no longer overreacts to your aids. Bsms can get away with his horse being hypersensitive about his flanks, cause he trail rides him and seems happy to adapt. If you want to do dressage, the horse needs to be responsive to, but not freaked out by leg aids.
Posted via Mobile Device
~*~anebel~*~, Kayty, bsms and 3 others like this.
     
    09-13-2012, 02:49 PM
  #25
Showing
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsms    
Hmmm. Depending on how he's been trained, you may just piss him off. If he believes you are telling him to both speed up and slow down at the same time, he's going to get confused. He can be trained to be ridden that way, but it might require some understanding and breaking things down into smaller pieces first.

I have no idea how Cinny has been trained. I'm just noting that MY horses were not happy about ANY lower leg contact that wasn't a specific cue until I rode them for a while and they learned light contact was normal for me. And Trooper still rides differently for me than for others, because he has learned it as being one of my oddities rather than being the 'new normal'.
Riding leg, seat into hand creates the contact you want your horse to ride INTO and seek. You're not giving two different cues (stop, go) at the same time, per se, you're giving a cue for contact. If you throw away your rein (read:contact) then you have "opened a door" out the front for the energy to flow out.

ETA: there's more to it, but I don't want my thumbs to start bleeding haha. If someone hasn't addressed it further when I get on a keyboard, I'll try to remember to come back and explain..
Posted via Mobile Device
     
    09-13-2012, 02:50 PM
  #26
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4everiding    
If you squeeze your horse tighter with legs but you leave the "front door" open, he's going to run. If your horse is out to your hands and is creating the contact and you squeeze your horse tighter, the front door is no longer open and he won't run. Same thing happens in you leave the "back door" open and increase the pressure of your hands, your horse will draw back from your hand to evade the bit and then his gait gets choppy, blech... ask your trainer if you should if you should close your hands more if you increase the leg pressure
I like this one. I think this is where I get jumbled up though because I can have my reins so tight that there is only maybe 18 inches between my hands and his mouth and he is nearly behind the vertical and when that leg pressure goes on he LEANS into the bit, throws up his head and yanks the reins out of my hands or....starts throwing his head side to side and up and down, every which way while rushing forward. At this point I think "half halt, seat, half halt, seat" and try not to be yanked forward by him. Inevitably I give up, drop my reins and we both stop to breathe. I know this seems tight but I have learned that he considers anything looser an "open door."

Maybe a fix is to just let him go, use my seat and half halt and ride on the buckle a few minutes with the leg on him until I feel him begin to relax, then pick up my reins and slowly close the door without LOCKING it so much until I have him relaxed with the leg on him? This would probably take a good 4 hours though, knowing him.

BTW, I have a Happy Mouth loos ring double jointed snaffle on him....I know after reading above that you guys are imagining some kimberwicke, tom thumb or worse tearing up his mouth in our struggle... Don't worry I don't even own such things :)
     
    09-13-2012, 02:57 PM
  #27
Trained
If your goal is a dressage horse, it might help if you could let a trainer work with him with that in mind. There are a lot of threads about the differences between western & english riding, and I think we sometimes forget that there are REAL differences that go well beyond the tack used.

He sounds a lot like Mia. She'll try hard if she understands, but she's a "Please & Thank You Horse", not a "DAMMIT Horse". And when she doesn't understand, she'll get irritated and then scared. And scared is not fun for either of us. My goal for her is for her to become 'just a trail horse', and that is taking a lot of work. I need to break ABC down to A, and sometimes to an "a", and sometimes to "half of an a" before she gets it. In return, once she gets it, she'll give you everything she has!

I also plan to have the trainer come back and work some more with her next summer. There are things a pro can teach that I just don't understand well enough myself - my body, my mind understands the theory but my darn 54 year old body won't do what it needs to do - to give her a fair chance at learning. Everyone talks about Green + Green, but we sometimes have to make do with what we've got. However, it would be really tough, I think, for a learning dressage rider to teach a horse dressage. It is tough enough for a green trail rider to teach a green trail horse to trail ride...
Cinnys Whinny likes this.
     
    09-13-2012, 03:00 PM
  #28
Foal
Cinny you said your horse is leaning into your hands. That's a big problem.

My OTTB used to do this all the time when I first got him, he was used to having someone tear on his face and he leaned into it. I would try to hold him back and boom he was off to win the imaginary race in his head.

My trainer saw this the first time I had a lesson with him and he told me to drop my reins, my horse stopped...who would have thought.

I started at the walk and my trainer made me "comb the reins". Ask him to yield to my hand by holding my outside hand steady opening my inside reind and squeezing with my inside leg. The second my horse yielded to my hand (dropped head, softened back, slowed down) I let the reins slide through my hands so he could stretch out to reward him, pick up contact again and I did this over and over again and then did it repeatedly at the trot until my horse would trot around long and low. This taught him to reach for my hands and create the contact, I still do this with him if he's feeling like he wants to dictate the ride. I do this for 5 minutes and he's giving me the trot/canter that I want not the one he's offered me and he creates the contact between his mouth and my hands.
Cinnys Whinny and With Grace like this.
     
    09-13-2012, 03:11 PM
  #29
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4everiding    
Cinny you said your horse is leaning into your hands. That's a big problem.
He doesn't do it all the time, only if I try to "close the door." In fact, a repetitive remark of judges is that we don't have a constant or confident connection. I agree with that. My reins normally tend to be on the too loose and slightly dangling side.

When I try to put squeeze or put pressure from my calves on him in a way that my trainer can visibly see it, and then hold him in...THAT is when he does it. If I ride "my style" where I just sort of give him an ankle flick and then release...he gently goes forward with rhythm and stays at a constant gait and a steady rhythm. If I hold my legs on him, he will get faster and faster.... If I then close the door he does the above.

Does that make sense?

He also neck reins very beautifully and you can go out on trail or ride bareback in the arena with your reins completely dropped and just use your seat and touch his neck with the reins to get him to yield over, turn and..he stops with completely dropped reins and no use of them at all, just on seat. He is perfect at a walk, however at the trot his head comes straight up and he prances around like a giraffe if you ride him on the buckle or completely loose. I have never had the guts to canter him with dropped reins though.

He has a lot of knowledge in there, but the holes in between are many.
     
    09-13-2012, 03:17 PM
  #30
Foal
Cinny what you explained makes perfect sense. I've been exactly where you are before and it's frustrating.

If he's won't yield to your hand and truly accept the bit when you close the doors he won't compress, he'll explode. What you guys need to work on is having him reach for your hand if that means giving up your current "frame" for a bit and taking him back down to long and low, that's perfectly fine. Use long, low and happy as your foundation and build on it.
Cinnys Whinny and bsms like this.
     

Quick Reply
Please help keep the Horse Forum enjoyable by reporting rude posts.
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the The Horse Forum forums, you must first register.

Already have a Horse Forum account?
Members are allowed only one account per person at the Horse Forum, so if you've made an account here in the past you'll need to continue using that account. Please do not create a new account or you may lose access to the Horse Forum. If you need help recovering your existing account, please Contact Us. We'll be glad to help!

New to the Horse Forum?
Please choose a username you will be satisfied with using for the duration of your membership at the Horse Forum. We do not change members' usernames upon request because that would make it difficult for everyone to keep track of who is who on the forum. For that reason, please do not incorporate your horse's name into your username so that you are not stuck with a username related to a horse you may no longer have some day, or use any other username you may no longer identify with or care for in the future.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.


Old Thread Warning
This thread is more than 90 days old. When a thread is this old, it is often better to start a new thread rather than post to it. However, If you feel you have something of value to add to this particular thread, you can do so by checking the box below before submitting your post.

Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Student did a sky dive off horse today catsandhorses Horse Riding 3 09-22-2011 02:02 AM
Lookingg for a Working Student Position, Have you heard of these Trainers? Freedomhowler Dressage 12 03-14-2011 09:39 AM
Hi everyone! Just joined. Student horse owner here! Casval Meet the Community 5 03-11-2011 12:59 AM
Being a Working Student - from Horse & Hound dantexeventer Horse Articles 5 04-19-2010 10:20 PM
College student starting riding again- Need English TACK sweetwhispers Tack and Equipment Classifieds 2 02-23-2010 12:38 PM



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:01 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0