Training and handling of a 3 year old stallion! - Page 2 - The Horse Forum

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post #11 of 58 Old 07-13-2012, 06:49 PM
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Having worked with stallions, I have to say they're no different than any other horse besides the fact that you generally can't keep them WITH other horses (as in paddocked together). Our big boys have their own private fields to themselves with at least 12 feet of buffer space between them. Otherwise they're liable to (1) go after a mare or (2) go after another stallion/gelding to kill. They're friends in the barn, but outside...nope. Electric fencing helps keep them in line.

In hand these stallions are as tame and sweet as any lovable gelding you can think of, but we don't give them an inch because we know that they are stallions and we know what their hormone-driven selves are capable of (and I don't want to see my gelding beaten up because he was trying to be friendly with a pair of testicles).
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post #12 of 58 Old 07-13-2012, 06:50 PM
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You will always have to be aware, first and foremost, that a stallion is a thousand pound breeding machine that can and will act on his instincts lightening quick.

Taking your stud out for shows, trail rides, or any equine event and you always need to be aware of cycling mares and his overwhelming desire to breed them. His brain goes to standby if he thinks he is going to breed, which will make your training regimen much harder than people with mares or geldings ... he will scream, prance, hang his pecker and dance at any chance he gets.

His housing needs are different, and he will never be allowed out in the "general population" - most studs have to be housed in a stallion barn with individual turnout, if you find barns that allow studs - most around here don't.

As a stallion gets mature, riding with your friends in the arenas is no longer a "hop on and ride" deal, it is a carefully planned out event to ensure the safety of your and your friends.

Stallions react quickly, often by striking and biting, and must be handled with extra diligence - can it be done? Sure - but the extra requirements make owning a stallion a real challenge - not one to be taken, in my opinion, unless there is a overriding reason to do so - and the longer he is a stud the more the behaviors become embedded within his personality, so if he ends up not working for you and you need to sell... now you have a stallion to sell that the vast majority of prospective buyers will want nothing to do with.

The bottom line is horses are challenging enough to train and mold into the perfect partner, and stallions just don't allow mistakes - you ALWAYS must pay attention, ALWAYS must strictly enforce rules, and NEVER let down your guard - I never understood why people would want to take the risks and responsibilities that come with that type of animal when a gelding is so much more suited for horseowners.

There is no passion to be found playing small - in settling for a life that is less than the one you are capable of living. - Nelson Mandela
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post #13 of 58 Old 07-13-2012, 07:36 PM
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I agree owning a stallion is a different ball game because you have to consider things normally you wouldn't with a gelding or a mare. (Though I seen some mares act worse than a naughty stallion).

Normally I wouldn't encourage owning a stallion and mostly abide by the saying " a good stallion makes an even better gelding." However Duffy, I believe, you have plans of showing Dressage and is under the supervision and under the roof of a competent trainer. You are willing to learn and have agreed if it becomes too much to deal with to geld him. I think that shows some smarts. If you were someone that was a first time horse owner who found a stud colt at the local auction for $50 with plans of keeping him intact so you could breed him and make money, I would say shoot you and the horse in head and save us the trouble...LOL.
I would hope that your trainer would tell you if you were over your head in this one!
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post #14 of 58 Old 07-14-2012, 12:29 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace80908 View Post
You will always have to be aware, first and foremost, that a stallion is a thousand pound breeding machine that can and will act on his instincts lightening quick.

Taking your stud out for shows, trail rides, or any equine event and you always need to be aware of cycling mares and his overwhelming desire to breed them. His brain goes to standby if he thinks he is going to breed, which will make your training regimen much harder than people with mares or geldings ... he will scream, prance, hang his pecker and dance at any chance he gets.

His housing needs are different, and he will never be allowed out in the "general population" - most studs have to be housed in a stallion barn with individual turnout, if you find barns that allow studs - most around here don't.

As a stallion gets mature, riding with your friends in the arenas is no longer a "hop on and ride" deal, it is a carefully planned out event to ensure the safety of your and your friends.

Stallions react quickly, often by striking and biting, and must be handled with extra diligence - can it be done? Sure - but the extra requirements make owning a stallion a real challenge - not one to be taken, in my opinion, unless there is a overriding reason to do so - and the longer he is a stud the more the behaviors become embedded within his personality, so if he ends up not working for you and you need to sell... now you have a stallion to sell that the vast majority of prospective buyers will want nothing to do with.

The bottom line is horses are challenging enough to train and mold into the perfect partner, and stallions just don't allow mistakes - you ALWAYS must pay attention, ALWAYS must strictly enforce rules, and NEVER let down your guard - I never understood why people would want to take the risks and responsibilities that come with that type of animal when a gelding is so much more suited for horseowners.

It is rather different out here, and you find many stables that willingly take on stallions providing they have none of the 'attitude'.

Also, just to lay it out there... if he does show stallion behaviour, it doesn't mean I will sell him. It means I will geld him.

I have to agree with Cowchick, I have met far more dangerous mares than stallions. They themselves are more unpredicatable at times.
Then again, we are involved with flight animals..

When I spoke to my trainer about him the first thing she said was "geld him, you have no use for a stallion"
If it wasn't for the owner making ridiculous demands, he would have been gelded. As it was, he came to the yard entire.

Due to his breeding, conformation and current nature, he has prospects to be a stud. If it goes awry, we have the option to remove his testosterone sacks ;D But you can't stick them back on.

All in all he is a pleasure to be around, and I would have expected any behaviour to have happened on a new yard, new horses, stables with mares etc. There is nothing, so far.

However, I don't wish for his gelding to be due to myself not being capable or handling him correctly.

My trainer owns, breeds, and trains stallions as part of her living to produce some of the best QH and paints in Germany, we have thoroughly discussed x, y and z and what is required of him as a colt in his behaviour, and how I need to act around him to ensure it.

This has gone completely off track ;)

I was asking for help and tips of training and handling Dubai, not reasoning on the internet as to whether or not he should have his balls...


Slight update.. he didn't get worked today. He had wormer last night (which he adored o.0) and this morning my trainer said he looked like he had some belly ache, so he was left in the round pen for an hour to mooch. And roll. I swear I will never have a dark brown horse that stays that colour!

Feet were much better today, the pulling forward and the poke in the ribs is working wonders.. he picked one of his front legs up as I approached it and held it up for me... quick learner!
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post #15 of 58 Old 07-14-2012, 01:29 PM
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Love stallions and they can be quite a bit of fun, but as has been said they are also a special consideration as well. With the proper training, firm and consistent without being abusive, they can be wonderful mounts and partners. Without consistent firm handling they can be a nightmare.

Frankly I worry more about the horses and people around us when I'm on and handling my stallion because by and large people just don't think. Parking a horse close by, backing into him, letting their kids trot around on Old Blossom who decides at that moment, that my guy is the sexiest thing she's seen in all of her 32 mare years and decides to fly backwards squatting and peeing, with the kid screaming, the parents yelling at me to control my horse (who is standing there quiet minding his own business until Antique Hussy entered the picture) *rolls eyes* and Lord help if he decides to whicker at her, bat his eyes or even breathe heavy because then it's "OMG IT'S A STALLION! IT'S GOING TO RAPE ALL THE MARES AND KILL ALL THE GELDINGS!!"

Yeah... really. The last show I took him too we were in a huge indoor arena, probably 200 foot across, and we were simply standing quite nicely and quietly, in the center of the ring. There was a lady there with an Arabian mare way on the rail, over 100 foot away. My boy was quiet and well mannered, just looking around takng in the sights and her mare was cranky, flagging her tail and generally being a brat. I hear.. across this huge indoor arena... "OMG is he a stallion??? Let me get to the gate....I don't want him to breed my mare!!" *sigh* In true long time horse show attitude (hot, tired, and a bit cranky myself at this point) I yelled back "Why yes!! He's a stallion!! No worries though, he only whips out the long penis for the pretty mares!!"

I don't think she was amused *shrug* Idiots...

Anyway, all that to say yes stallions can be great rides and companions, they bond to their humans but you have to remember they are big breeding machines first and foremost and even when your boy is well behaved and quiet, there will always be discrimination against them because they have testicles. So if you are able and willing to deal with not only handling your horse but defending him when he's done -nothing- wrong, then go for it. It sounds like with the experience that your barn owner has you are in good hands. Good luck with Dubai :) My stallions have always been my favorites. The training itself isn't really any different, you just have to be a bit more consistent and firm than you would with a mare or a gelding because a stallion, just due to their nature, will take advantage and try to dominate if they can.

Keep this in mind:

You can tell a gelding.
You must discuss with a mare.
You negotiate with a stallion.

;)
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post #16 of 58 Old 07-14-2012, 05:28 PM
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^^^ LOL! Wow...

I DON'T LEAD 'EM AND FEED 'EM, I RIDE 'EM AND SLIDE 'EM.
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post #17 of 58 Old 07-15-2012, 02:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DuffyDuck View Post
This has gone completely off track ;)

I was asking for help and tips of training and handling Dubai, not reasoning on the internet as to whether or not he should have his balls...
Actually, you did ask for my reasoning...

Quote:
Originally Posted by DuffyDuck View Post
Can I ask what life opportunities he is missing out on, and why is it going to make things difficult for me?
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Regardless, good luck with your stud, it sounds like you have an experienced mentor to help you in your journey with Dubai :)
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There is no passion to be found playing small - in settling for a life that is less than the one you are capable of living. - Nelson Mandela
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post #18 of 58 Old 07-15-2012, 03:19 AM Thread Starter
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that's what started it going off track lol.

I just wanted to let people know im not keeping him whole cause "I wunt pretteh babyz" but its been a well looked at process....

Thank you though :) I secretly think she's going to turn him into s pet project haha! There will be many updates!
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post #19 of 58 Old 07-15-2012, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace80908 View Post
You will always have to be aware, first and foremost, that a stallion is a thousand pound breeding machine that can and will act on his instincts lightening quick.

Taking your stud out for shows, trail rides, or any equine event and you always need to be aware of cycling mares and his overwhelming desire to breed them. His brain goes to standby if he thinks he is going to breed, which will make your training regimen much harder than people with mares or geldings ... he will scream, prance, hang his pecker and dance at any chance he gets.

His housing needs are different, and he will never be allowed out in the "general population" - most studs have to be housed in a stallion barn with individual turnout, if you find barns that allow studs - most around here don't.

As a stallion gets mature, riding with your friends in the arenas is no longer a "hop on and ride" deal, it is a carefully planned out event to ensure the safety of your and your friends.

Stallions react quickly, often by striking and biting, and must be handled with extra diligence - can it be done? Sure - but the extra requirements make owning a stallion a real challenge - not one to be taken, in my opinion, unless there is a overriding reason to do so - and the longer he is a stud the more the behaviors become embedded within his personality, so if he ends up not working for you and you need to sell... now you have a stallion to sell that the vast majority of prospective buyers will want nothing to do with.

The bottom line is horses are challenging enough to train and mold into the perfect partner, and stallions just don't allow mistakes - you ALWAYS must pay attention, ALWAYS must strictly enforce rules, and NEVER let down your guard - I never understood why people would want to take the risks and responsibilities that come with that type of animal when a gelding is so much more suited for horseowners.
What you discribe is a badly trained stallion and one that has never been socialised properly.
In the uk the M&M show ring is full of well trained well socialised stallions and shock horror they are ridden and handled by children!
I know plenty of stallions that are turned out with thier companion geldings, that wouldnt dream of getting thier bits out when being ridden and given that a lot of them compete to a high level in dressage, jumping or eventing as well then it is obvious thier brains don't go on vacation when they see a mare. In the show ring They are walk, trotted, cantered and galloped in a group of other unfamiliar horses including mares, geldings and other stallions and there has yet to be an incident because of it.

Train a stallion correctly and they are no different to any other mare or gelding.

RIDE your horse FORWARDS and keep him STRAIGHT

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post #20 of 58 Old 07-15-2012, 11:44 AM
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I think you are doing an amazing job with your stud. I agree that he's not aloud to 'hang out' when I'm around him or any other person for that matter. I have told people that if he's being a stud around them then they can give him a quick smack to the chest barrel or rump and if that doesn't work they can make him work so he has the respect of everyone in contact with him and not just me. I don't know what kind of horse you have but because mine is a draft I started teaching him to lift his legs with a tap on the leg to let him know which I wanted, push his leg forward until I got it to bend, and then I'd use a lead rope to help me lift and hold his leg up before he got the hang of it. Because my body wasn't up next to his he couldn't lean on me. I never gave him the option to lean because if I felt the weight get heavy I'd drop the leg a bit or completely teaching him to hold it himself. I also agree with doing circles, bending, and other work when he's misbehaving whether it's calling out to the mare or acting studly towards you or anyone else (also other animals such as dogs, cows, or any animals at your barn). There might me times when it's hard to deal with him but the more vigilant you are and the more work you do with him the better he'll be.


I disagree with what other people have been saying about how dangerous stallions are. A stallion that isn't trained correctly will be dangerous. However the properly trained and socialized stallion will act no differently then any other horse. For example I have an 18hh Belgian stallion that I've trained from nothing that I bring to shows all the time and he's never once gone after a mare. In fact the people who own the mares have a harder time controlling their horses around mine than I do controlling my boy around them. He's also paddocked with a gelding, adjacent to both another stallion separated by electric tape (not electrified), another gelding separated by electrified tape because the gelding isn't friendly, and a mare about 10 feet in front of him across in another paddock. He hasn't acted out at any of the horses around him since I've finished training because he knows not to act out. If he acted studly or tried to act like head honcho over me then he got worked. It's a lot of work but if you're willing to do it then I wish you the best of luck. Don't let other people bully you around and decide what to do with him, he's your horse, your opinion is the only one that matters, and if you want to keep him in tact then go for it.
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