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    09-28-2008, 01:26 PM
Green Broke
Originally Posted by Arrow
The horse is going to do what I say, no matter how long I have to wait. Horses tend to sense that kind of attitude pretty quickly.
My husband and I discovered that with his gelding. Getting after him too much only excites him more and makes him harder to handle. Raymond has the patience of Job, so he just sits/stands there until his horse Mark complies. It's really funny, because you can see them both sitting there fuming, lol, but Raymond always wins. Mark is smart enough that next time, he just does it right off, but sometimes he gets a hair up his hiney and they go through it all over again, lol.

Now, with me, his gelding will take his reprimands like a good boy. I guess he understand the lead mare thing. But, he was gelded late, so we think that when he's confronted with a male challenging him, it gets him all riled up. Whatever the reason, it's definitely interesting and has taught both of us yet another way to work with horses.

Good input Arrow!
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    09-28-2008, 03:08 PM
Dunno if it's been mentioned, but my big point is:


Please please don't bore your horses by doing one thing 100% of the time. Just like you, horses need a bit of variety in their training schedule.
Take some time off from dressage and go for a hack, or have a jumping lesson.
If you're jumping, take some dressage lessons.
If you're doing western pleasure, maybe try some speed stuff.
My point is that repitition, as good as it is in some cases, isn't the answer to everything. Horses get bored too!
If you keep things mixed up a little, your horse will benefit both physically and mentally. It's amazing what a little crosstraining can do!
    09-28-2008, 03:56 PM
I am very much a beginner---less than 2 years of horse experience under my belt but I have to agree with the calm and quiet idea of training.

I personally can't handle a stick, lead rope, a moving horse, and myself without getting all tangled up.

Mark Rashid and Kathleen Lindley seem to follow this as well. I saw Kathleen a few weeks ago teach a 2 year old to lunge. It was done SO quietly with no anxiety on the horse's part or the owners. They just started out having the horse walk around them as they walked as well. The horse quickly got what was expected but there was no "frenzy" that I see with so many trainers in the round pen--in fact they didn't even use a round pen.

Ryan Gingerich is another trainer that doens't use a round pen and uses a halter, lead rope, and a lunge whip for all training---no need for anything fancy or expensive and everything is done at a slow pace---walk first and only after the horse has more experience does he move up to a faster gait.

As a newbie, these are the things I can do. Then again, I am NOT a horse trainer. I have a 15 year old QH/Arab that needs just a bit of fine tuning on the ground.
    09-28-2008, 07:12 PM
I hear you! I was just coming back to post that one of the reasons I advocate always controlling the head with a lead or reins, and outwaiting the horse rather than "moving their feet" is because its simple and not too hard to do! I'm actually an experienced horseperson, but I can't handle a horse, whip, and lunge line at the same time--I'm just too uncoordinated. You sound like you are on the right track, Ottakee!

I think that quieting a horse down is better than winding a horse up. It takes two to make a fight--how can you win a fight against a 1000 pound animal? Quiet insistence, firmness, and patience always wins the day.
    09-28-2008, 10:46 PM
Pressure, release.
They give to the pressure, the pressure is released completely.

If the horse does not respect you, it does not like you and will not perform for you in a willing manner

Patience and repitition.
Be patient when teaching new things and respectful of the horses understanding of aids. Repeat, repeat, repeat. They learn by repitition, reward the good things, ignore the bad and repeat the good.

Always reward and job well done
    09-29-2008, 07:37 AM
Originally Posted by JustDressageIt
My point is that repitition, as good as it is in some cases, isn't the answer to everything. Horses get bored too!
Agree. In fact one of my horses became EXTREMELY resistant up to the bad habits point when I use "repetition, repetition, repetition" methods by one of the very well known NH trainers... It's better to step off and come back next day if something goes wrong rather than polish something by doing it 100 times in row.
    09-29-2008, 01:34 PM
Agreed: that repetition to the point of boredom or frustration has a negative, rather than positive. To me, that is usually a signal that too much was being asked for, so I step it down or break it into smaller learning steps and try to end on a positive note (as was also mentioned).
    09-29-2008, 10:16 PM
Completely agreed..
I use repitition, but as a rider, you have to learn to experiment.
So practise and practise but not to the extent that both horse and rider are getting frustrated. When that happens, I halt my horse breathe, walk forwards and go do something else.
You can't be stuck to the same routine-as a rider, you have to understand and feel when it's time to do something else and when it's time to give the horse a break etc.
    09-30-2008, 11:56 AM
I am by no means a trainer. In my situation I have had to let the horse teach me at times. I am thankful that my geldings have been patient enough to let me wrap my head around what they need me to tell them. (if that makes sense)

Dumas is the kind of fellow that is afraid of a whip. I have never struck him with one yet he knows what they are. Apparently that was from previous owners. He and I have both learned that a whip has both positive and negative connotations.
When Dumas was down with colic I was able to follow my husband walking Dumas and tap the ground with the whip to keep Dumas moving until the vet arrived. It was a positive experience for all of us. I can carry a whip, or anything really, and Dumas trusts me with it. I can without a doubt, guarantee that he won't trust you.

Twister is a happy horse, he accepts a whip, stick, anything really. He is eager to please and trusts us completely. That has made him almost more of a challenge than Dumas. We MUST be good stewards of that trust. We have to re-think what we are asking of Twister to ensure that we are not asking things that could potentially be damaging to him. Where Dumas will refuse and let us slow down and realize why he won't do it. Twister will just do it with blind faith.

Each horse has an individual personality and temperment. They are not machines. You may be thinking "well, duh" but I have learned that so many people just see a horse. I'm willing to admit that I was one of those people, I am and forever will be thankful to my guys that they taught me respect. They have taught me that every relationship has and ebb and flow. It is a bond of predator and prey that should not be taken lightly.

Time and patience.
    09-30-2008, 01:16 PM
Originally Posted by Dumas'_Grrrl
It is a bond of predator and prey that should not be taken lightly.
And I have to ask what "bond" could there possibly be between "predator and prey"? I see this concept all the time with NHers...and truthfully, I do not understand it. How can you be both "leader" and "predator" to your horse? I'm from Montana and there would be no way on God's green earth that a horse would EVER allow a predator to put a paw on them let alone view them as a leader, friend or herd mate! I understand the concept of horses being a prey animal, but that doesn't automatically mean they view humans as predators! It means they are cautious by nature of anything unfamiliar to them. Heck, a horse will run from a cow, pig or a sheep if he's not familiar with them and they aren't predators but prey animals as well. And I've seen horses turn and attack a dog when they could easily out run it. IMHO, horses view everything as a threat until they learn otherwise - but once they learn otherwise, they no longer view *whatever* as a predatory threat. I just don't think horses stand around scared to death that the next human they see is going to eat them! Why would they? We do not act like predators toward them. No horse has ever seen a human pounce on a horse and rip it to shreds. So I have to ask, why do you think a horse views humans as predators?

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