Training Techniques
   

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Training Techniques

This is a discussion on Training Techniques within the Horse Training forums, part of the Training Horses category

     
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        08-25-2008, 03:32 PM
      #1
    Weanling
    Training Techniques

    New assignment

    Research and learn, in depth, these topics and write what I have learned.

    Positive and Negative reinforcement training

    Clicker Training- is a slang term used to describe a way of training animals that has become increasingly popular in the last decade because of its gentle methods. The scientific term for it is operant conditioning
    (http://www.clickertrain.com/whatis.html)

    Natural Horsemanship-is the philosophy of working with horses by appealing to their instincts and herd mentality. It involves communication techniques derived from wild horse observation in order to build a partnership that closely resembles the relationships that exist between horses.
    (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_horsemanship)

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    If you have any input on any of these ideas please feel free to share!! Thank you!!
         
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        08-25-2008, 04:19 PM
      #2
    Trained
    I don't know much about clicker training so I won't comment on that (although it sounds neat), but I will give my two cents on NH.
    Personally, I think that if in order to get good horsemanship skills you need to buy a $20 orange stick, a $50 halter and a whole bunch of DVDs then you are really getting taken. I have a great training method that works for all my horses. It's called fair and consistant handling. And guess what all you need is yourself and a horse with whatever kind of halter you want to put on him.
    I can read a horse's body language and he can read mine just fine without us sitting down to a cup of tea together and watching some cowboy on a video explain to us how to communicate better.
    It's a huge scam and good on Monty Roberts and Chris Irwin for cashing in on people's gulibility. I wish I thought of it sooner.
    Also: How natural is a "buck stopper"?? To me it looks like clothes-line strung across a horse's upper gums with "NH" stamped on it.
         
        08-25-2008, 05:43 PM
      #3
    Showing
    I think anything that gets people on horses is wonderful. There are many people who have never owned a horse or who are getting back into horses after years away. That's who those clinicians really help. If they make some money doing it, so be it.
    If it weren't for them (the novice horse owner) I think the horse market would be much worse than it is. Everyone has to start somewhere. Back before the internet and RFDtv, someone buying a horse for the first time was pretty much alone in the dark. Especially in rural areas where a stable, trainer or riding school isn't just around the corner. Saying, well if they don't know how to handle a horse, they shouldn't own one, is counterproductive. I say thank God there are DVD trainers out there.
    Just a note, no I don't own a carrot stick or any fancy bits or training apparatus. I do have a few DVD's and have learned something from each one. I have also learned from other horse people, this forum and just hands on experience. IMO the best teacher is a wet saddle pad
         
        08-25-2008, 08:04 PM
      #4
    Weanling
    Ok let me clarify something here... Don't get natural horsemanship mixed up so much with Parelli, etc. Just the classical and natural horsemanship techniques. Although he is a great trainer I also agree that you don't have to buy all of his equipment to train a horse.

    So basically what I want to know is how you get your horse to respond in certain situations. Do you use neg or pos reinforcement?? Do your horses respect you?? Why?? Or anything else you would like to add....
         
        08-25-2008, 10:27 PM
      #5
    Trained
    Well.... When I was young & new to horses, I got into Parelli.... in hindsight, rather fanatically :roll: I effectively programmed myself with his recommended exercises and was able to then retrain my old thrasher, who didn't take kindly to the conventional style of horsemanship, or the pain from a bit used harshly in a very sore mouth(cheeks were literally red raw when I got him :( )

    In hindsight, while Parelli taught me an awful lot, the way I was doing it, with knowledge of the techniques but without much 'savvy' of the principles behind it, it wasn't very 'natural' & often not overly pleasant for my horse. I was able to get him to do just about everything I asked of him, ride him out with just a string around his neck, etc. But try as I might, I couldn't get him to WANT to be my partner, to enjoy being ridden.

    Then I discovered c/t & studied behavoiural psych. The world again opened up to me! As you've said, the name is a bit of a gimmick, and as with Parelli, while people often get hung up on the equipment etc, it is the principles that are important. If you understand & follow these, you understand that the clicker, food treats, carrot stick, etc are just helpful tools, but are in no way necessary. With c/t I was able to teach my boy(& others who have come after) to actively enjoy playing my games, whatever they may be. I think this is near impossible if you're only using negative reinforcement.

    I now use a combination of methods. I still predominantly use NH style exercises & negative reinforcement, but use a lot of positive reinforcement too. It has been great and helped me with the many people & horses I've trained in the last years.
         
        08-25-2008, 10:36 PM
      #6
    Green Broke
    Something someone once told me was to take in as much information as you possibly can, run it through your "BS meter", and if it seems reasonable try it. If it works, great. If not, keep it in your "toolbox" for any future horses. I try and learn as much as I can wherever I can, clinics, books, magazines, talking with other trainers, etc. Individual horses can be so different, what works with one doesn't necessarily work with another. Neg/Pos reinforcement, nat horsemanship, etc etc. I just use what I need to in that situation with that individual horse. My personal pony? Is very eager to please, sometimes worries, and gets upset when punished so he flourishes with lots of praise and assurance, with some reminders when necessary. A jumper that I ride? Is bold, stubborn and needs respect reminders on a regular basis. He gets praise of course, but I don't mind giving him a whack when he needs it. You can't treat these horses the same way! There's no formula in training horses. That's my opinion anyways!
         
        08-25-2008, 11:11 PM
      #7
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by loosie
    Well.... When I was young & new to horses, I got into Parelli.... in hindsight, rather fanatically :roll: I effectively programmed myself with his recommended exercises and was able to then retrain my old thrasher, who didn't take kindly to the conventional style of horsemanship, or the pain from a bit used harshly in a very sore mouth(cheeks were literally red raw when I got him :( )

    In hindsight, while Parelli taught me an awful lot, the way I was doing it, with knowledge of the techniques but without much 'savvy' of the principles behind it, it wasn't very 'natural' & often not overly pleasant for my horse. I was able to get him to do just about everything I asked of him, ride him out with just a string around his neck, etc. But try as I might, I couldn't get him to WANT to be my partner, to enjoy being ridden.

    Then I discovered c/t & studied behavoiural psych. The world again opened up to me! As you've said, the name is a bit of a gimmick, and as with Parelli, while people often get hung up on the equipment etc, it is the principles that are important. If you understand & follow these, you understand that the clicker, food treats, carrot stick, etc are just helpful tools, but are in no way necessary. With c/t I was able to teach my boy(& others who have come after) to actively enjoy playing my games, whatever they may be. I think this is near impossible if you're only using negative reinforcement.

    I now use a combination of methods. I still predominantly use NH style exercises & negative reinforcement, but use a lot of positive reinforcement too. It has been great and helped me with the many people & horses I've trained in the last years.
    Awesome input loosie!! This is exactly what I was going for anyway...
         
        08-25-2008, 11:18 PM
      #8
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by upnover
    Something someone once told me was to take in as much information as you possibly can, run it through your "BS meter", and if it seems reasonable try it. If it works, great. If not, keep it in your "toolbox" for any future horses. I try and learn as much as I can wherever I can, clinics, books, magazines, talking with other trainers, etc. Individual horses can be so different, what works with one doesn't necessarily work with another. Neg/Pos reinforcement, nat horsemanship, etc etc. I just use what I need to in that situation with that individual horse. My personal pony? Is very eager to please, sometimes worries, and gets upset when punished so he flourishes with lots of praise and assurance, with some reminders when necessary. A jumper that I ride? Is bold, stubborn and needs respect reminders on a regular basis. He gets praise of course, but I don't mind giving him a whack when he needs it. You can't treat these horses the same way! There's no formula in training horses. That's my opinion anyways!
    As for upnover, I know what you mean when you say that every horse has its individual way of training needed. That makes perfect sense.

    But I still think that the way a horse thinks and responds to certain things can be somewhat the same in a sense. Due to the fact that they are all prey animals and think and act relatively alike. Every horse will find the easy way out of a situation (sometimes more then others.) Behavioral psychology of horses is an awesome way to learn how your horse will respond and learn from you.
         
        08-25-2008, 11:29 PM
      #9
    Started
    I am new to horses and I have learned so much from all of these professional trainers. Don't get me wrong...I have not purchased any videos at all. They are way to expensive in my opinion. What I have done is watched a lot of their shows, read information on their websites, as well as lots of other websites and lets not forget this website. You can gain a wealth of information absolutely free right here on the 'net. As for the tools...I havent purchased any of those either...but I have used my own variations. It doesnt seem to me to be important to use the exact tool, but instead understanding why the trainer is using the tool and what he is accomplishing with it. After knowing that...you can make your own out of stuff you already have in your tack room. I for one and very glad all the information has been made available to us poor noobs.
         
        08-26-2008, 12:58 AM
      #10
    Weanling
    Thanks for your input sandy2u1!
    I'm glad to hear you have really been researching your new hobby!! Lol. Good luck with it and I hope you get a lot our of it! Hopefully this thread may even teach you a little something...
         

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