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Training Techniques

5K views 31 replies 15 participants last post by  ArabianAmor 
#1 ·
:!: New assignment :!:

Research and learn, in depth, these topics and write what I have learned.

Positive and Negative reinforcement training

Clicker Training- is a slang term used to describe a way of training animals that has become increasingly popular in the last decade because of its gentle methods. The scientific term for it is operant conditioning
(http://www.clickertrain.com/whatis.html)

Natural Horsemanship-is the philosophy of working with horses by appealing to their instincts and herd mentality. It involves communication techniques derived from wild horse observation in order to build a partnership that closely resembles the relationships that exist between horses.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_horsemanship)

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If you have any input on any of these ideas please feel free to share!! Thank you!!
 
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#2 ·
I don't know much about clicker training so I won't comment on that (although it sounds neat), but I will give my two cents on NH.
Personally, I think that if in order to get good horsemanship skills you need to buy a $20 orange stick, a $50 halter and a whole bunch of DVDs then you are really getting taken. I have a great training method that works for all my horses. It's called fair and consistant handling. And guess what all you need is yourself and a horse with whatever kind of halter you want to put on him.
I can read a horse's body language and he can read mine just fine without us sitting down to a cup of tea together and watching some cowboy on a video explain to us how to communicate better.
It's a huge scam and good on Monty Roberts and Chris Irwin for cashing in on people's gulibility. I wish I thought of it sooner.
Also: How natural is a "buck stopper"?? To me it looks like clothes-line strung across a horse's upper gums with "NH" stamped on it.
 
#3 ·
I think anything that gets people on horses is wonderful. There are many people who have never owned a horse or who are getting back into horses after years away. Thats who those clinicians really help. If they make some money doing it, so be it.
If it weren't for them (the novice horse owner) I think the horse market would be much worse than it is. Everyone has to start somewhere. Back before the internet and RFDtv, someone buying a horse for the first time was pretty much alone in the dark. Especially in rural areas where a stable, trainer or riding school isn't just around the corner. Saying, well if they don't know how to handle a horse, they shouldn't own one, is counterproductive. I say thank God there are DVD trainers out there.
Just a note, no I don't own a carrot stick or any fancy bits or training apparatus. I do have a few DVD's and have learned something from each one. I have also learned from other horse people, this forum and just hands on experience. IMO the best teacher is a wet saddle pad :wink:
 
#4 ·
Ok let me clarify something here... Don't get natural horsemanship mixed up so much with Parelli, etc. Just the classical and natural horsemanship techniques. Although he is a great trainer I also agree that you don't have to buy all of his equipment to train a horse. :D

So basically what I want to know is how you get your horse to respond in certain situations. Do you use neg or pos reinforcement?? Do your horses respect you?? Why?? Or anything else you would like to add....
 
#5 ·
Well.... When I was young & new to horses, I got into Parelli.... in hindsight, rather fanatically :roll: I effectively programmed myself with his recommended exercises and was able to then retrain my old thrasher, who didn't take kindly to the conventional style of horsemanship, or the pain from a bit used harshly in a very sore mouth(cheeks were literally red raw when I got him :( )

In hindsight, while Parelli taught me an awful lot, the way I was doing it, with knowledge of the techniques but without much 'savvy' of the principles behind it, it wasn't very 'natural' & often not overly pleasant for my horse. I was able to get him to do just about everything I asked of him, ride him out with just a string around his neck, etc. But try as I might, I couldn't get him to WANT to be my partner, to enjoy being ridden.

Then I discovered c/t & studied behavoiural psych. The world again opened up to me! As you've said, the name is a bit of a gimmick, and as with Parelli, while people often get hung up on the equipment etc, it is the principles that are important. If you understand & follow these, you understand that the clicker, food treats, carrot stick, etc are just helpful tools, but are in no way necessary. With c/t I was able to teach my boy(& others who have come after) to actively enjoy playing my games, whatever they may be. I think this is near impossible if you're only using negative reinforcement.

I now use a combination of methods. I still predominantly use NH style exercises & negative reinforcement, but use a lot of positive reinforcement too. It has been great and helped me with the many people & horses I've trained in the last years.
 
#6 ·
Something someone once told me was to take in as much information as you possibly can, run it through your "BS meter", and if it seems reasonable try it. If it works, great. If not, keep it in your "toolbox" for any future horses. I try and learn as much as I can wherever I can, clinics, books, magazines, talking with other trainers, etc. Individual horses can be so different, what works with one doesn't necessarily work with another. Neg/Pos reinforcement, nat horsemanship, etc etc. I just use what I need to in that situation with that individual horse. My personal pony? Is very eager to please, sometimes worries, and gets upset when punished so he flourishes with lots of praise and assurance, with some reminders when necessary. A jumper that I ride? Is bold, stubborn and needs respect reminders on a regular basis. He gets praise of course, but I don't mind giving him a whack when he needs it. You can't treat these horses the same way! There's no formula in training horses. That's my opinion anyways!
 
#7 ·
loosie said:
Well.... When I was young & new to horses, I got into Parelli.... in hindsight, rather fanatically :roll: I effectively programmed myself with his recommended exercises and was able to then retrain my old thrasher, who didn't take kindly to the conventional style of horsemanship, or the pain from a bit used harshly in a very sore mouth(cheeks were literally red raw when I got him :( )

In hindsight, while Parelli taught me an awful lot, the way I was doing it, with knowledge of the techniques but without much 'savvy' of the principles behind it, it wasn't very 'natural' & often not overly pleasant for my horse. I was able to get him to do just about everything I asked of him, ride him out with just a string around his neck, etc. But try as I might, I couldn't get him to WANT to be my partner, to enjoy being ridden.

Then I discovered c/t & studied behavoiural psych. The world again opened up to me! As you've said, the name is a bit of a gimmick, and as with Parelli, while people often get hung up on the equipment etc, it is the principles that are important. If you understand & follow these, you understand that the clicker, food treats, carrot stick, etc are just helpful tools, but are in no way necessary. With c/t I was able to teach my boy(& others who have come after) to actively enjoy playing my games, whatever they may be. I think this is near impossible if you're only using negative reinforcement.

I now use a combination of methods. I still predominantly use NH style exercises & negative reinforcement, but use a lot of positive reinforcement too. It has been great and helped me with the many people & horses I've trained in the last years.
Awesome input loosie!! This is exactly what I was going for anyway...
 
#8 ·
upnover said:
Something someone once told me was to take in as much information as you possibly can, run it through your "BS meter", and if it seems reasonable try it. If it works, great. If not, keep it in your "toolbox" for any future horses. I try and learn as much as I can wherever I can, clinics, books, magazines, talking with other trainers, etc. Individual horses can be so different, what works with one doesn't necessarily work with another. Neg/Pos reinforcement, nat horsemanship, etc etc. I just use what I need to in that situation with that individual horse. My personal pony? Is very eager to please, sometimes worries, and gets upset when punished so he flourishes with lots of praise and assurance, with some reminders when necessary. A jumper that I ride? Is bold, stubborn and needs respect reminders on a regular basis. He gets praise of course, but I don't mind giving him a whack when he needs it. You can't treat these horses the same way! There's no formula in training horses. That's my opinion anyways!
:idea: As for upnover, I know what you mean when you say that every horse has its individual way of training needed. That makes perfect sense.

But I still think that the way a horse thinks and responds to certain things can be somewhat the same in a sense. Due to the fact that they are all prey animals and think and act relatively alike. Every horse will find the easy way out of a situation (sometimes more then others.) Behavioral psychology of horses is an awesome way to learn how your horse will respond and learn from you.
 
#9 ·
I am new to horses and I have learned so much from all of these professional trainers. Dont get me wrong...I have not purchased any videos at all. They are way to expensive in my opinion. What I have done is watched a lot of their shows, read information on their websites, as well as lots of other websites and lets not forget this website. You can gain a wealth of information absolutely free right here on the 'net. As for the tools...I havent purchased any of those either...but I have used my own variations. It doesnt seem to me to be important to use the exact tool, but instead understanding why the trainer is using the tool and what he is accomplishing with it. After knowing that...you can make your own out of stuff you already have in your tack room. I for one and very glad all the information has been made available to us poor noobs.
 
#10 ·
Thanks for your input sandy2u1!
I'm glad to hear you have really been researching your new hobby!! Lol. Good luck with it and I hope you get a lot our of it! Hopefully this thread may even teach you a little something... :wink:
 
#11 ·
Honestly......i have never looked at any of the natural horsemaship / parelli stuff.
Infact the only lessons in riding or whatever i ever took with an instructor was when i was 9yrs old. Did PC but that didnt teach me anything i didnt already know.

Basicly i learnt to read my horses on my own. I did the whole trial and error thing. I have now done a little bit of clicker training with one of my horses and love that technique, but havnt done any for a while with him, i also did it with my dog and cat and it worked very well indeed with them.

And i go by a rule of : in any given situation think back and imagine how the horse would react if it were in a similar situation in the wild.....i think how they might react and any possible after effects from this, and i find ways to counteract this or limit its after effects in as stress free way as possable. I always go back to thinking of the horses natural instincts, as it opens up any explination to the way a horse reacts to its surroundings..therefor making me more aware of my own actions :D


This way of thinking and many years of work has brought my once timid, unfit , sad boy Banjo into my most treasured pet 8)

hope that made sence :roll:

I always take in others advice and methods.( wether its what not to do or sound advice )..but i often adapt it to my own situation ....changeing it slightly sometimes. Taking bits and peices from here and there.
 
#13 ·
love the BS meter!!!
negative reinforcement is using a big stick really hard-it only teaches fear
positive reinforcement is using a small stick and using it selectively and teaching an animal respect by treating the animal with respect-

still love the bs meter-you can find usefull info all over the place like she said "sift through it and find what works for you" without dumping wads of cash into someone elses pocket for junk that has nothing to do with horsemanhip.
 
#14 ·
I see the concept behind the "natural horsemanship," but there are so many negatives I have seen I don't even know where to start. On the Parelli, I watched a clinic on RFD tv where the poor horse was thrashed in the face with a flying lead rope to teach it to......throw its head straight up in the air and run backwards...and when the horse reared to get away from the pressure hitting its face Parelli then hit it upside the head with the end of the lunge (can't remember the catch phrase for the Parelli item). I was sickened, that is not my only Parelli story, but the most effective. The idea of horse psychology is wonderful. I strive for that with my horse, but I don't consider anything I do on the same lines of "natural horsemanship." Every movement I want is slow, relaxed and flowing. I think the natural horsemanship is about quick, sharp and jerky. I don't see any slow, relaxed movements out of their principles, and I want a horse with a relaxed, slow attitude and the only way to get that is to approach the horse relaxed and slow in all you ask for. I can ride my gelding bareback, bridless and do patterns, trail courses, etc. with no problem, and there is nothing "natural" about his training.

Sorry, I am a very anti-natural horsemanship person, for I feel it is actually unfair to the horses, and you get a negative response and attitude eventually from them. I've seen a lot of nice horses ruined from it, and therefore have a real negative look on it....sorry for being so blunt...but I wish everyone would research and really "look" before they implement training techniques. If you want a speed horse, or reiner out of all of them I do like Clinton Anderson for a quicker minded and paced event type horse. His methods make a little more sense under saddle. Dona Hokaman (don't know if I spelled that right) has some great videos with training techniques on them, as well as Cleve Wells.
 
#15 ·
Rubonsky said:
I see the concept behind the "natural horsemanship," but there are so many negatives I have seen I don't even know where to start. On the Parelli, I watched a clinic on RFD tv where the poor horse was thrashed in the face with a flying lead rope to teach it to......throw its head straight up in the air and run backwards...and when the horse reared to get away from the pressure hitting its face Parelli then hit it upside the head with the end of the lunge (can't remember the catch phrase for the Parelli item). I was sickened, that is not my only Parelli story, but the most effective. The idea of horse psychology is wonderful. I strive for that with my horse, but I don't consider anything I do on the same lines of "natural horsemanship." Every movement I want is slow, relaxed and flowing. I think the natural horsemanship is about quick, sharp and jerky. I don't see any slow, relaxed movements out of their principles, and I want a horse with a relaxed, slow attitude and the only way to get that is to approach the horse relaxed and slow in all you ask for. I can ride my gelding bareback, bridless and do patterns, trail courses, etc. with no problem, and there is nothing "natural" about his training.

Sorry, I am a very anti-natural horsemanship person, for I feel it is actually unfair to the horses, and you get a negative response and attitude eventually from them. I've seen a lot of nice horses ruined from it, and therefore have a real negative look on it....sorry for being so blunt...but I wish everyone would research and really "look" before they implement training techniques. If you want a speed horse, or reiner out of all of them I do like Clinton Anderson for a quicker minded and paced event type horse. His methods make a little more sense under saddle. Dona Hokaman (don't know if I spelled that right) has some great videos with training techniques on them, as well as Cleve Wells.
This is great input!! I agree 100% with slow, relaxed, and flowing training, like you have mentioned. Like I said I am still researching all of this myself and any facts, information, and techniques I can get are vital.

I do not so much like Parelli myself. I've just learned a little bit about him and I think any person who believes his way is the only way, and his tools are the only tools, are full of it! :roll:

I do not agree with any quick, sharp or jerky training when it comes to horses. I find this to be very harsh and can really damage your horse's self esteem and create more problems then solutions.

Thanks a lot for your input Rubonsky!!
 
#16 ·
ArabianAmor said:
:idea: As for upnover, I know what you mean when you say that every horse has its individual way of training needed. That makes perfect sense.

But I still think that the way a horse thinks and responds to certain things can be somewhat the same in a sense. Due to the fact that they are all prey animals and think and act relatively alike.
Yes! While many specifics might have to be 'tweaked' differently for different horses according to their personalities, the basic principles are the same. Even so far as species, while different things concern or motivate us according to our species & personalities(& the time & place), we all learn in essentially the same way whatever animal we are.

I think a big part of the issue is that we all also learn based on our own perceptions & perspectives, from previous experiences. Therefore, 'natural horsemanship' is one of those terms which has come to sort of mean everything & nothing - it means different things to different people. Same goes with the perceptions and understanding of different techniques, understanding(or lack of of the principles behind the specifics....

So I will give my own personal opinion, understanding & perception of the subjects....

To my mind, learning about & working within a horse's natural way of thinking, natural horsey tendencies is what 'natural horsemanship' is about. It is also about working with a horse in a way that promotes *willing partnership* rather than a sort of master/slave relationship, which 'old fashion' methods often develop. Therefore, it applies equally to all horses.

Taking Parelli as an example(because that's the NH 'guru' I know best), while many of his 'games' etc are based on natural equine behaviour, I don't know that I'd call the actual techniques natural. In hindsight, I can also see that without enough knowledge, this teaching still led only to a master/slave relationship with me & my first horse, tho this was plainly not his intent.

As for positive & negative reinforcement, while different things motivate different people, within or outside a species, everyone learns like this. Punishment is also a learning 'tool', but it is not as effective or well accepted(without 'side effects') as reinforcement, even by humans, who have an understanding of abstract concepts such as past, present & future. For clarification....

Positive Reinforcement(+R) = addition of something desirable in order to strengthen the behaviour

Negative Reinforcement(-R) = removal of something undesirable in order to strengthen a behaviour

Positive Punishment(+P) = addition of something undesirable in order to weaken a behaviour

Negative Punishment(-P) = removal of something desirable in order to weaken a behaviour

People often don't understand the principles behind these concepts, so therefore they are often not effective in their use tho. For eg. reinforcement or punishment must happen *at the time of* the behaviour that you are wanting to modify. And the behaviour is either strengthened or weakened, not 'known' or understood as 'right or 'wrong', without many, many repetitions.

I find with regard to c/t & especially feeding treats, there are a couple of mental blocks that people have. The first is the idea that an animal 'shouldn't' have to be given treats in order to 'work'. That because you 'own' the animal, it 'should' work just because you tell it. Or it should work because you're the one who feeds it it's dinner.

I think this is an incredibly flawed view, because firstly, There is a difference between using treats as conscious and well timed positive reinforcement and giving them whenever, without thinking about reinforcement. In the first instance, it's not just about 'rewarding' 'good' behaviour, but actually teaching it. Secondly, animals live in the here & now, don't have moral understandings of right or wrong, should or shouldn't, but do what works *for them* and quit doing what doesn't work. They might bond with someone because of the care they get, but they won't learn to come when called(for eg.) if they're never reinforced - or inadvertently punished - for it. Thirdly, the concept that an animal should feel obliged to do as it's told for this reason, or just because you own it & order it, is flawed, because they don't understand these concepts, and didn't ask to be owned & have no choice in the matter.

Another problem people have with positive reinforcement that comes from a lack of understanding is specifically food treats. People think that feeding treats causes or encourages bad behaviour. They often aren't fully conscious of exactly what they're reinforcing, so it leads to them inadvertently reinforcing 'bad' behaviour. Eg. the person wants to reinforce the horse for coming when called, so they give the horse a treat. But they don't notice or don't worry that the horse also comes at them with his ears back, or uses his teeth to take the treat.... until they've reinforced (strengthened) this behaviour often enough that it becomes an established problem.

People also seem to commonly think of things like praise and patting as adequate positive reinforcement for a horse. While this may be adequate for a person, praise is just noise to an animal(tho it can be effectively associated to true +R to have some meaning, in the same way that a clicker is...) and horses often - never say never - just tolerate(or actively dislike) patting & other grooming, rather than really desiring it. For a positive reinforcement to be effective, it needs to be something truely desirable *to that animal at that time*, whether it's food treats or otherwise.

Anyway, that's my..... 2000 cent's worth :lol: I hope this has given you some more food for thought! Have fun with the assignment.
 
#17 ·
ArabianAmor said:
I do not so much like Parelli myself. I've just learned a little bit about him and I think any person who believes his way is the only way, and his tools are the only tools, are full of it! :roll:
...And another 2c from me :roll: While as I've said, I used to be big on Parelli, but I agree that there are many negative aspects to his teaching. Actually threw the baby out with the bathwater when I first learned about behavioural psych & c/t & decided he was all bad...

I tend to concentrate on learning the principles behind people's teachings. One of Parelli's principles that people regularly seem to miss, so have the above prob, is that he does NOT believe his way it THE way, or that people should only learn from one source, or that any specific tools are necessary or will make it work for you. While I've heard the man himself say the above, I agree that his practices and insinuations often contradict what he has preached.... but as I said, I concentrate on the principles, so many practices(including the huge marketing machine) generally goes unheeded over my head.
 
#18 ·
:shock: Loosie, I just want to thank you for putting the time and effort into that reply. I got a lot out of it!!

I also do agree that Parelli has a lot to offer that we can learn from, but we just have to run some of it threw out "bs" meter.... :lol:

Anyway thanks for your 2000 cents worth!! Hahaha!! I wish I had more to say on the subject but I am more just taking everything in, and when I'm done with the assignment, I think I may have an opinion more of my own... :wink:
 
#19 ·
totally 100% agree with what upnover said about taking everything everyone you meet says, determine what is useful and what isnt and then use what works for you. the natural approach is obviously best but some occasions call for whatever method works for you, within reason.

i dont follow a NHorseman nor have i really delved a whole lot into it but i have picked up bits and pieces from the odd dvd here and there and on here as well. im basically self taught in every way apart from the odd tid-bit from others of course :) obviously approaching horses in a way they are going to actually understand is best which lends more to NH type techniques
 
#21 ·
I have to ring in my thoughts on the idea of treats, I will be brief, but lets take the most natural horse way of thinking and acting in to this idea......does a horse give another horse a treat for doing something they wanted it to? or their favorite buddy some extra treat because they are their favorite?....no. I hate to say it, but I am one of those "no treats" people. If you watch the horses turned out together you will notice horses base everything on respect! (I'm not going to get into that one, for there are so many different ideas on how to gain that, and principles), but I wanted to touch on the treat and reward and positive reward horses like and understand.

You see two best buddies out in the pasture scratching and grooming each other, that is their positive reward they understand the best....in my opinion. Every single horse at the barn has a "spot" as I call it. The scratchy "spot" that makes their lip go, they make faces, they move so you get it, they enjoy, and like when you scratch their. I do the same if I'm riding one, working one on the ground, or whenever they earn a reward. I stop and scratch, usually around the withers, or under the mane, and I've never had a horse without a "spot" or who didn't enjoy and seem to understand what that meant. Just a thought.
 
#22 ·
Thats cool... Yeah, I have always found a horses "spot" as well... Usually behind the whithers. But I don't see the problem in treats as long as they don't rely on them completely... I think most horses are very motivated by food. And if a horse buddy could give them food I'm sure they would love it!! Almost every training consisting of human to animal uses treats. This is kinda why I like the idea of clicker training as well, and if you've seen what it can do, you will know it is amazing!

I know what you mean by rewarding with something more natural etc. but sometimes a treat can be more ideal in the situation. But whatever works for you!! :D
 
#23 ·
~*~anebel~*~ said:
I don't know much about clicker training so I won't comment on that (although it sounds neat), but I will give my two cents on NH.
Personally, I think that if in order to get good horsemanship skills you need to buy a $20 orange stick, a $50 halter and a whole bunch of DVDs then you are really getting taken. I have a great training method that works for all my horses. It's called fair and consistant handling. And guess what all you need is yourself and a horse with whatever kind of halter you want to put on him.
I can read a horse's body language and he can read mine just fine without us sitting down to a cup of tea together and watching some cowboy on a video explain to us how to communicate better.
It's a huge scam and good on Monty Roberts and Chris Irwin for cashing in on people's gulibility. I wish I thought of it sooner.
Also: How natural is a "buck stopper"?? To me it looks like clothes-line strung across a horse's upper gums with "NH" stamped on it.
i actually agree with this to the most part. to me NH is a label and stuck of pussy footing around with the ponies. Anything effective that is to be done with horses training wise, relates back to something natural, or it wouldn't work correctly.its just whole bunch of different training techniques, which EVERYONE has, but because it has a label, everyone knows about it and it's said in a way that is easy to understand.
 
#24 ·
I disagree with that statement. A lot of "old schoolers" trained horses through fear. They literally "broke" them by using fear and intimidation and breaking the horses spirit. NH was born out of a need and a desire for horse owners to train their horses in a more humane way that did not break the horses spirit.
 
#25 ·
I think that loosie said it all. I believe there is a time and a place for most training applications. I also believe that consistency is the key to a well trained horse. (And forums like this so you can bounce ideas around) :D
 
#26 ·
Well, to be truthfully honest, I couldn't tell you even on little training tid bit coming from Parielli, Monty, Irwin... or anyone else their may be out there.

I've never watched a movie, read a book, took a clinic with any of them.
I do think it's a great idea to go out and watch different trainers.
There is many times where I've picked up different techniques and implented them into my own program.
Different trainers all have different ways, and some things that they've done where I'm like "uh, no.", and some things that they've done where I'm like "Hey, that's a great idea!"

I've had this questions put to me a few times, and it really is a bit difficult to answer, because mostly (even though most of the principals are the same) it changes for every horse because every horse has a different personailty and ability to deal with things.

I suppose how were I describe it...

Leading, I like to make sure is first on the list. I know it sounds silly, but it's amazing how many horses don't actually know how to lead properly.
It's the first basic any horse should learn, and should they learn to lead properly, they should have the respect and trust for the handler to walk beside you without any worries.
There shouldn't be any pulling or dragging involved on either parties part.

Groundwork - Picking up feet, moving away and moving with (this is a great way to start them to get their basics for spins, turn on the forehand, sidepass), dropping their head when asked (I can't stand it when I go to bridle a horse and their head is in the air), backing up, etc.

Lunging comes next. I like them to be able to listen to me enough to turn, walk, jog, lope, stop (and when I saw Whoa, they had better be slamming on those hind end brakes. I like to see this before I ever step in that saddle, that way should I ever need to pull them up in an emergency, they know right quick what whoa means).

Saddling/bridling. Once they are used to being saddled, bridled and stands nicely, I lunge them with it.

From the ground I work on collection, turning, flexion, backing, stopping.

Then I jump up, and usually by this time, I have no problems.
If I have to take two-three weeks before they're ready, then so be it.
I'm a big fan of ground work and don't believe in rushing it.

I don't believe in horse whispering, but I do believe in horse listening.

When a horse starts to act out, I try to find out WHY, instead of punishing the bad behaviour first off.

For example, you're training a horse and he's throwing up his head. Why?
There could be so many reasons.
Teeth problems. Bugs. Impatience. Brow Band is too tight.

Because my horses (as with most Arabians) are very people orientated, I use the Reward-Ignore technique a lot.

Meaning, when I get good behaviour from them, they get rewarded (a break, a pat, etc). When they show bad behaviour (so long as it is not dangerous - I mean impatience, stomping, etc) I ignore it.

If they want to sit there and stomp, so be it, but you aren't going to get anywhere. When they stop, give them a pet.
They learn pretty quick that once they stop being stupid, they get paid attention too.

Sometimes they just act stupid for fun, and you've got to figure out when they are doing that, and when they're acting stupid because they're upset.

Sometimes you hit a point where you both just so frustrated with each other because you're listening that if a horse could talk (and boy, do I wish they could sometimes!) you'd probably have a pretty darn interesting screaming match.

However you train a horse, you have to be CONSISTENT about what you do.
I've had a few people who say "Well, one day he listens and one day he doesn't."
Well, one day you follow your rules and so does he, the next your slack so he will be too!
They are very much like kids... give them an inch and they take a mile.
If you aren't consistent, you can't expect the horse to be.

Training a horse is a long, tough process that takes a LOT of practice to get everything down pat.
But when you get it finished, it's the best feeling in the world.

Anyway, that's it from me. I'm done. And I don't even know if I said anything! LOL
 
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