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Treat training horses.What are peoples opinions / thoughts.

This is a discussion on Treat training horses.What are peoples opinions / thoughts. within the Horse Training forums, part of the Training Horses category

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        01-29-2013, 06:42 AM
      #91
    Banned
    Well,I made up my mind earlier ,that I wouldn't come back to this forum if all people were going to do was put down training methods they aren't familiar with or simply didn't like.But I am watching the treat/clicker training with great interest.Question directed at the clicker folks.If you use the clicker as a "bridge" to indicate the horse being correct, wouldn't a verbal cue like "good boy" do the same?
         
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        01-29-2013, 07:36 AM
      #92
    Foal
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Newfie    
    Well,I made up my mind earlier ,that I wouldn't come back to this forum if all people were going to do was put down training methods they aren't familiar with or simply didn't like.But I am watching the treat/clicker training with great interest.Question directed at the clicker folks.If you use the clicker as a "bridge" to indicate the horse being correct, wouldn't a verbal cue like "good boy" do the same?
    Yes and no.

    Theoretically yes, it would do the same thing. But in practice, generally it isn't quite the same.

    The clicker is consistent. It always has the same tone and volume, and cannot have any emotion attached to it. It is also usually faster (easier to hit a button in time, than to say 'good boy' in time for it to mark the behavior). Voices can vary wildly, can't be handed over to someone else and remain consistent, and also can be emotional (not sure if this is as big a problem in horses as it is with dogs).
    Newfie likes this.
         
        01-29-2013, 07:51 AM
      #93
    Banned
    I have to add one thing here.I simply do not get the resistance to different types of training by some people.I do understand people preferring one type of training over another as a matter of preference .I do understand that some people would rather not use treats as a tool.I do understand people preferring English over Western and so forth.What I don't understand, is people making blanket statements that one is better than another or making little sarcastic digs about it .or that one type of training lacks horsemanship.I live in isolation from ranches and barns [some people consider this a positive thing].Because of this, I have been forced to try different types and styles.I don't subscribe to any style but use a mix.I am not ,nor ever wish to be called a "professional".If being a rank amateur means I am open to different ideas and options,than I will forever remain a rank amateur.I have gotten to a point where I can ride my horses tackless, so ****,I must be doing something right.Yes I started this thread looking for opinions about treat training.I didn't expect to get called less of a horse person fr using this method.I get that some prefer to not use it for whatever reason.People do what works for them.But just because you prefer to not use treats does not make it bad or wrong.
         
        01-29-2013, 07:57 AM
      #94
    Banned
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Lunarflowermaiden    
    Yes and no.

    Theoretically yes, it would do the same thing. But in practice, generally it isn't quite the same.

    The clicker is consistent. It always has the same tone and volume, and cannot have any emotion attached to it. It is also usually faster (easier to hit a button in time, than to say 'good boy' in time for it to mark the behavior). Voices can vary wildly, can't be handed over to someone else and remain consistent, and also can be emotional (not sure if this is as big a problem in horses as it is with dogs).
    I understand what you are saying.I am the only one who rides my horses.This is how I do it when training..I will break it down step by step and see what you think.I was use the turning que while riding. Step 1. I ask the horse to turn right by putting gentle pressure on left. 2 If he does not respond right away ,I increase pressure. 3 when he does do what I ask,I immediately say "good boy" and give him is reward. Thanks for your thoughts by the way.
         
        01-29-2013, 08:47 AM
      #95
    Super Moderator
    I must be dense. I just don't get it. I think people ask for opinions when what they really want is validation. If you ask for opinions, that is what you will get and they are not all going to agree with you. You learn from any little nugget of information that enlightens you and you dismiss those that do not agree with you.

    People have called me cruel and mean. They have said I had mindless Zombies because I like obedient horses and know how to make them willing and obedient and HAPPY. I did not take my marbles and run and play with only people that agree with me. I have stuck around and have not taken anything anyone said personally or gotten offended. It is just a difference of opinion. I have mine and they have theirs. I may explain why I have mine (which I thought I did here) but I am perfectly happy that they have theirs.

    If a person is starting a thread JUST to get validation and opinions from people that agree, then give it a different name -- like say -- 'Anyone else here like training with treats?' You know what? I would not have posted --- may not have even read it depending on if I had the time or not.

    And I still think that if you need treats to get a horse to back up willingly, you just need to work on your horsemanship and training skills. I am not trying to be offensive or snotty. Just stating the facts AS I SEE THEM. If you use treats to get a horse to bow or lay down or pick something up and give it to you, join the crowd that uses treats to teach tricks. But, don't ask for opinions and then have a fit when people give theirs. Any mature person should know that if there are 10 people in a room, there are probably going to be 12 different opinions about a subject. So asking for opinions may not be the best way to get validation.

    [By the way, I have given some people the the same message that I though it was not a horse problem but strictly a lack of training skill problem and they thanked me for the 'wake-up call' and said they were going to work on advancing their horsemanship skills in that area.]
         
        01-29-2013, 09:10 AM
      #96
    Banned
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Cherie    
    I must be dense. I just don't get it. I think people ask for opinions when what they really want is validation. If you ask for opinions, that is what you will get and they are not all going to agree with you. You learn from any little nugget of information that enlightens you and you dismiss those that do not agree with you.

    People have called me cruel and mean. They have said I had mindless Zombies because I like obedient horses and know how to make them willing and obedient and HAPPY. I did not take my marbles and run and play with only people that agree with me. I have stuck around and have not taken anything anyone said personally or gotten offended. It is just a difference of opinion. I have mine and they have theirs. I may explain why I have mine (which I thought I did here) but I am perfectly happy that they have theirs.

    If a person is starting a thread JUST to get validation and opinions from people that agree, then give it a different name -- like say -- 'Anyone else here like training with treats?' You know what? I would not have posted --- may not have even read it depending on if I had the time or not.

    And I still think that if you need treats to get a horse to back up willingly, you just need to work on your horsemanship and training skills. I am not trying to be offensive or snotty. Just stating the facts AS I SEE THEM. If you use treats to get a horse to bow or lay down or pick something up and give it to you, join the crowd that uses treats to teach tricks. But, don't ask for opinions and then have a fit when people give theirs. Any mature person should know that if there are 10 people in a room, there are probably going to be 12 different opinions about a subject. So asking for opinions may not be the best way to get validation.

    [By the way, I have given some people the the same message that I though it was not a horse problem but strictly a lack of training skill problem and they thanked me for the 'wake-up call' and said they were going to work on advancing their horsemanship skills in that area.]
    If you are referring to me, I can assure you I need no "validation" for the use of treats as a "tool" by a stranger on horse forums.I get validated everyday by my horses.I don't "need" treats to get my horse to back up.I used it as a motivator early in training along with pressure and release.Along with vocal ques .I stll use it when teaching new things .As a motivator.As a tool.That's all.It does not make me less of a horse person.My horses are much more engaged and happy to do the things that I ask.I can do it without treats but prefer the use of treats.Like I said,I can manage to ride my horses tackless so it can't all be bad.But You are entitled to your opinion.You think it is a bad bad thing,and that the only people who use treats as reward are poor horseman.
         
        01-29-2013, 09:12 AM
      #97
    Showing
    *Thread closed for review*
    Lockwood likes this.
         

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