Trust and Respect - Page 2 - The Horse Forum
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post #11 of 35 Old 01-21-2013, 07:36 PM
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Oklahoma
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I'm glad your finally realizing that your mare does not have your total respect and that their are holes in your training. Hurray I think you just matured I'm proud . My recommendation is to continue studying horse language that way you can correct and guide your horse appropriately and also better figure out how to take a leader role. Another suggestion is more studying and watching video's on lunging from what I've read about your lunging something is off. I suggest you lunge your horse as you normally would when the trainer come so he/she can correct you properly. Ask lots of questions and make that trainer show you what they do. Take advantage of the one on one time as much a possible.
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post #12 of 35 Old 01-21-2013, 08:15 PM
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OK, this seems good. And the even better part of it is, that if you do the exercises right you will kill two birds with one stone, in that by teaching your horse to back up, lead, yield everything you will teach it respect at the same time.
Go and check out CA’s gear, like others have said; he seems pretty good. You could just go and get Parelli’s original Natural Horsemanship book too (surely it can’t be that expensive), just because I’m familiar with his gear. Follow what he goes on about in there, and actually read what he says to do (most people don’t and only pay attention to the nice fluffy stuff, so they do a half ars*# job of it and have horses that walk all over them) and you will have the horse moving around how you want and build the respect as you do it. It’s always easier to have someone to help you, but reading the book should give you some ideas about the actual mechanics of how to actually manipulate the horse and equipment to achieve what you want.
In terms of getting the horse to actually do it. Well, I’m guessing you have an uphill battle ahead of you, but stay cool and be persistent, and get tough only when you have to, and I predict, with this horse, you will have to a few times, and she will get the message.
Just remember, set up a situation so that the horse will do what you want, if she doesn’t, ask her, then tell her, then make her do what you want. Apply pressure, and take it away when you get a try out of the horse. If she doesn’t try with a little, up the pressure slightly, and so on till you get a try. Once you consistently get a try with minimal pressure, ask for a bit more, ask for a try and half the accomplishment for example, or maybe just a quarter of the accomplishment, then take out the pressure, and so on till you actually get what you want. Learn to watch her eyes and ears, you will read a lot from those alone, and she could try with just a look or a turn of an ear, horses are pretty subtle; so be ready to drop of pressure with only tiny tries at first.
The good part of it all is that if you do it with consistency, and don’t tolerate any guff from her, (again, she will give you plenty of guff) she will learn that you are the boss. Don’t peck away at her constantly, if she is doing OK, just leave her alone but if she does something like kick or has a bite at you, make her think you are about to kill her, when she backs down leave it at that, short and sweet. If, on the other hand she decides to put up a fight, which she may well do if she has gotten away with a bunch of mischief, you can’t back down, you have to be willing to carry it through to the end, which is her submission, nothing else. And that’s where it can get very dangerous; that’s where you need some experience and you can’t take that part of it lightly because a horses hooves are much harder than any part of your body, they are bigger stronger, have more stamina, fitness and power. What they don’t have is more intelligence; so use your smarts and you should be OK.
If she does get flighty, and you don’t have the confidence to safely take her on and pull her into line, it is better to back down for the meantime, even though it will make it a bit worse next time, and wait till your trainer friend can show you how to do it and get you to do it in her/his supervision, Better that than getting a hoof in the head. I saw my cousin get struck by a from foot in the head from a disrespectful horse, he was experienced and had started plenty of youngsters; even with that experience it was nearly the end for him; just a good thing either he has a really thick scull; or tiny brain. Hoof in the head = very very bad. Be careful.
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post #13 of 35 Old 01-21-2013, 08:53 PM Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Saskatchewan Canada
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Originally Posted by themacpack View Post
I am really confused at this point - you say here you are going to have a trainer work with you and your horse, but you also just posted in another thread:


So......which is it?
I said I will have help from a trainer, When I need it, but she will not be their all the time. Yes, I am going to train and break Breeze myself, if I need help, she is there, but she is not going to come with me to shows, or tell me every little thing to do. She is their when I need her to be, and that is all. I am not changing anything, and what I said in both is the same thing. there is no which is it? because there is only one to choose from.
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post #14 of 35 Old 01-21-2013, 09:09 PM Thread Starter
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Also, I have heard a lot of people say that if you lay down a horse, he will respect and trust you. I was wondering if it would be wise to lay her down on some straw, with my trainer when she comes to help, and see if that helps any??

I have made breeze lie down before, when I first got her 5 months ago, mainly to see if she would lie down for me, and she did.
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post #15 of 35 Old 01-21-2013, 09:13 PM
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Noooooooo. Laying down a horse is dangerous and for what your doing completely unnecessary! Not only that it has to be done just right or you could injure your horse it requires extremely experienced hands. I think instead you need to work on your skills to get her to mind not punishing your horse because your unable to manage her. Work on your leadership skills!!!
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Last edited by Peppy Barrel Racing; 01-21-2013 at 09:16 PM.
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post #16 of 35 Old 01-21-2013, 09:14 PM
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When you give a horse structure, they often learn to respect you. All of those things you listed are very realistic goals if you have the aptitude. Getting help from a trainer is a good first step, but it also might be a good idea to research different trainers and get as many angles on the subject as you can. Youtube can be your best friend sometimes, especially if you want to witness the "don'ts" of horsemanship. Consistency is key, along side having a good reaction time. Good trainers are what they are because they know how to read a horse, when to react, and how to react. A horse can respect a consistent leader, you just have to make yourself one. Some horses who have learned they can do whatever they want may start of with a bit of a problem with structure, but in the long run it is the best thing you can do for them. Also, the older the horse the more set in their ways they will be. (I have experience with quite a few old mares who have proven my theory to be correct, but that doesn't mean they can't change for the better.)

I have trained a few horses myself, and while I am not an expert I have learned something from the experience. I spend lots of quality time with my horses to get to know them, but never do I let them cross the line. My horses perceive me as not only a member of the herd, but a leader. Also, just because someone says something is right doesn't mean that it is. Get many different opinions. Horse people will never agree on any one thing, I assure you, but you have to have the mind to know what is good and what just ain't. Also, laying down a horse to make it submit or realize you are larger is entirely useless. It has worked, but it can also go terribly wrong, and wreck a perfectly good horse. (I've seen horses that were very fearful of people, and others who hadn't been taken down and turned out aggressive.) That being said, all of this can easily be achieved with more natural methods. Laying a horse down is a trick, not a good method of training. Good luck with your mare, and if you have any questions feel free to ask.

Last edited by ButtInTheDirt; 01-21-2013 at 09:19 PM.
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post #17 of 35 Old 01-21-2013, 09:14 PM
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Unless she is really bad I wouldn’t bother with it. You should probably see what your trainer friend thinks about it.
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post #18 of 35 Old 01-21-2013, 09:15 PM
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Lots of great advice here. My horse was a bit of a "bully" when I brought him home. Weather intentional or not everything you do is training for your horse. Too many times we try an think of horses in our on terms such as happy,sad, love, or hate. To me it seems more like I move her I'm dominate, she moves me she's dominate. At first every time I entered the pen I found some reason to move him. I'd go pick up a bucket he was in front or check some fence. Making sure to always move him rather than go around him (be careful not to bully here). This little exercise was the start of his training. Also, keep your emotion in check. Know you are dominate. You must be fearless and smart at the same time. What your going through is normal. Nobody knows the right thing to do all the time and everyone has to start somewhere. Have fun.
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post #19 of 35 Old 01-21-2013, 09:31 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you all. With the laying down, I will take your advice and not do it, at least until I have a lot more years of experience. When I laid her down almost 5 months ago, she went down like she did it before. She laid there until I asked her to get up, I walked ful circles around her, knelt down pet her, and was fine for a long time. She listened to me and respected me.

Lately again though...

I am trying to become the dominate one over her, but the last time I tried taking her to another pen, she got scared, and started making noises and flaring her nostrils and being really jumpy, I don't know why. We did not go in the pen. I do not know why she did that, I know it wasn't because she was away from the other horses, because I can take her down the road and away from them and she will act like normal.

Also, I want to do anything possible to give Breeze the best, and to do that, I need her respect, so, anymore advice on things to actually do with her to get her to respect me?

And is this a good start:
- keep her out of my space,
- stop, back up
- make her move her feet when I ask
- don't force, ask first, then tell.
- spend time with her
- trust her the way I want her to trust me
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post #20 of 35 Old 01-21-2013, 09:34 PM
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Here are some ideas. However, I wouldn't advise doing "the swing" right now - you could get kicked.
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