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ugh im getting sick of this! [Help! please]

This is a discussion on ugh im getting sick of this! [Help! please] within the Horse Training forums, part of the Training Horses category

     
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        07-30-2008, 02:17 PM
      #11
    Foal
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mayfieldk
    'stupid new habit.'

    Horses don't have stupid new habits. Riders just don't understand them.
    Agree and disagree. I think a lot of times a stupid habit is blamed on the horse b/c the rider is doing something wrong and expecting the horse to be correct, so the mistake gets blamed on the horse.

    But I do think that especially with green riders a horse will develope a habit it knows it can get away with, and if the rider is at all unsure then the horse takes advantage. In essence, the behavior does become a bad habit.
         
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        07-30-2008, 07:42 PM
      #12
    Green Broke
    Hrt4dressage I agree with you.


    Well When I try and 1 rein stop she keeps her neck straight and I put a lot more pressure and yank her in a circle, which doesnt seem to be helping. Usually I have to do that though because she will charge for the gate so I have to spin her in a circle pretty fast. I swear by the time I get done ill have her doing so many tight turns she could be a barrel racer lmao.

    Today we had it worse she would yank threw the arena so I would turn her head and bump her some what hard in the sides. And she would kinda spin right around. She's perfect with walking but once we move to a trot its a fight.

    I tried moving her head to my toe at the halt. We just ended up going in circles. Once she touched my toe I stoped. I did pole bending at a trot. And on ground I tried flexing her head around me.

    And when I give her leg cues I usually use the leg im turning her towards.. I think that's right lol


    We accually cantered today!! Im so proud! We jumped like 2ft!
    With the fighting of her head. But we did it.
         
        07-30-2008, 08:46 PM
      #13
    Trained
    Sounds like possibly a relationship issue to me, rather than a training one so much. Your horse does what you ask for softly and reliably when she's in the indoor arena? But when she's outside in view of her mates & her freedom, she does everything she can to tell you she wants to be with them, not you? If so, think what you need to focus on is making her time with you pleasant for her first & foremost. Make the tasks you ask of her fun &/or rewarding.

    If she really is perfect at the walk, but not faster, I would also want to first make very sure I'd ruled out saddle or other pain. Horses can often have trouble at faster paces, but cope OK at a walk with a bad back/saddle. Also being one sided, assuming she's been trained equally with either side suggests a physical issue.

    Quote:
    Well When I try and 1 rein stop she keeps her neck straight and I put a lot more pressure and yank her in a circle, which doesnt seem to be helping.
    I think this is definitely part of your problem. This will be reinforcing her defensiveness - giving her more reason for it - & making matters worse. This is not a 1 rein stop. You don't force it, you *teach* it. If/when she doesn't respond - or braces against - your softest cue, you need to increase it, but just to a level of discomfort, then hold it & wait - you don't start forcing the issue & yanking her around. This is a sure way to get bad results, aside from not teaching her to yield effectively.

    Quote:
    Shes perfect with walking but once we move to a trot its a fight.
    Really perfect? Is she *reliably* soft & obedient with everything you ask? If not, I'd be getting her better at the walk first. I would also start into trotting in the easiest environment. Eg. Get her good at trotting in the indoor before you increase the level of difficulty by adding distractions.

    Quote:
    I tried moving her head to my toe at the halt. We just ended up going in circles. Once she touched my toe I stopped.
    If she doesn't understand what you want at the halt, don't expect her to get it at a walk, let alone a trot or canter. I think it sounds like you're just expecting too much to begin with. You must start with something easy & *gradually* work towards your goal of having her bend her head right round.

    Eg. Ask her first to just yield to light pressure on one rein. Reinforce & reward *whatever* she gives you, even if it's only an inch. Repeat this until she's confident of what to do, before asking for *a little* more. I'd also teach her the bending & not moving her feet as separate criteria & only ask her to bend *&* stand still after she'd become good & reliable about bending in the first place.

    Quote:
    And when I give her leg cues I usually use the leg im turning her towards.. I think that's right lol
    There are a few different ways people use their legs, so with the advice of your instructor, so long as it's clear & consistent, you should do OK whatever system. This sounds possibly backwards compared to my method tho.

    I teach a horse to yield to pressure wherever I put it. So if I want them to yield their forehand over, I use the 'outside' leg to push on the girth or further forward(depending on the stage of training). If I want them to yield their hindquarters I use the 'inside' leg a little further back to 'push' the hq over. If I want a spin, I use outside forward and inside back, and if I want a 1 rein stop, or bend without moving, I keep my legs off.
         
        07-31-2008, 04:48 AM
      #14
    Showing
    Quote:
    Well When I try and 1 rein stop she keeps her neck straight and I put a lot more pressure and yank her in a circle, which doesnt seem to be helping.
    Quote:
    I think this is definitely part of your problem. This will be reinforcing her defensiveness - giving her more reason for it - & making matters worse. This is not a 1 rein stop. You don't force it, you *teach* it. If/when she doesn't respond - or braces against - your softest cue, you need to increase it, but just to a level of discomfort, then hold it & wait - you don't start forcing the issue & yanking her around. This is a sure way to get bad results, aside from not teaching her to yield effectively.
    Thank you loosie, that is what I was getting at but you explained it much better. I suggest that you seek help from a professional horse trainer to help you alleviate the bracing issues. It is important that you NEVER yank her head around because that will induce a pain response and make the problem worse. Try finding someone who can help work with you and your horse to make you both a better partner to the other. As for the 1 rein stop, don't pull her head around to your knee and expect her to hold it there if she is turning in circles. That will make it likely she will fall onto her side. Apply just enough pressure to get her to start turning and maintain it, don't increase. She will eventually stop moving her feet when she gets tired of going in little circles. On a problem horse, it is best that an experienced rider attempt this because there is always risk involved. I had a TB named Flipper who would get mad and throw himself down onto his side like a small child having a hissy fit. It took many months and lots of understanding to get him to stop that behavior and I had the help of my Dad for advice and support. Please try to find someone who can help so you can know the pure enjoyment that harmony with your horse can create.
         
        07-31-2008, 09:30 AM
      #15
    Banned
    Loosie you explain things far better than I do...

    Now that Loosie mentions it, it sounds to me it's a relationship or dominance issue.
    If she is better at the walk, only go at that pace until you can do anything with her at a walk...THEN go to a trot. Like people say for collection, if you can't achieve it at a walk, then you can't achieve it at a trot or canter. It's a working progress....and I know it will be hard just walking around the arena, but it will help.

    Quote:
    Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 7:46 pm Post subject:

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Sounds like possibly a relationship issue to me, rather than a training one so much. Your horse does what you ask for softly and reliably when she's in the indoor arena? But when she's outside in view of her mates & her freedom, she does everything she can to tell you she wants to be with them, not you? If so, think what you need to focus on is making her time with you pleasant for her first & foremost. Make the tasks you ask of her fun &/or rewarding.

    If she really is perfect at the walk, but not faster, I would also want to first make very sure I'd ruled out saddle or other pain. Horses can often have trouble at faster paces, but cope OK at a walk with a bad back/saddle. Also being one sided, assuming she's been trained equally with either side suggests a physical issue.

    Quote:
    Well When I try and 1 rein stop she keeps her neck straight and I put a lot more pressure and yank her in a circle, which doesnt seem to be helping.


    I think this is definitely part of your problem. This will be reinforcing her defensiveness - giving her more reason for it - & making matters worse. This is not a 1 rein stop. You don't force it, you *teach* it. If/when she doesn't respond - or braces against - your softest cue, you need to increase it, but just to a level of discomfort, then hold it & wait - you don't start forcing the issue & yanking her around. This is a sure way to get bad results, aside from not teaching her to yield effectively.
    Totally agree...think of it this way HAF. At first your mom will kindly tell you to go clean your room. If you don't, she'll ask again with a little more force...and then again with more force than the last time...and THEN she'll make you. Do the same thing with Chance...ask her nicely and with soft contact. If she doesn't turn, ask with more contact....and then again with more contact. Then if she doesnt turn, make her.

    Take it slow with Chance...don't work on everything at once and throw millions of new things out on her.

    Remember, once she gives a little bit....reward her...praise her. That's the only way she knows that what she did to that certain pressures is correct.
         
        07-31-2008, 08:34 PM
      #16
    Green Broke
    I took a lesson today and I relized I was exspecting more then she could give me in the first place and I was sorta of over welming her!
    Who ever said it you were right! Thanks for the help!

    Right now we are just going to work on some bending, work on she strightness approching the jumps, and slowing down her trot.

    That's all we are going to work on till thursday which is hopefully when my next lesson is!


    I feel bad for pushing her farther then I should have, but I guess I learned the hard way.

    She was accually working ON the bit for me!! tucked her nose under everything! Can't wait till my next lesson!
         
        07-31-2008, 09:14 PM
      #17
    Banned
    That's great to hear HAF! Some horses can't multi-task as well as others..I know Sonny can't!

    Good luck to both of you
         

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