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Unwilling to Work, Bad Attitude

8K views 14 replies 12 participants last post by  Elana 
#1 ·
I have been reading some recent threads on here so I think I've come to the right place. I have a 5 year old quarter horse gelding that my family and I bred and raised ourselves. He took on a biting habit and spunky attitude as a 2 year old, and with it being my first young horse to train I will be the first one to admit I was scared. He could tell. It really got bad in his 3 year old year. We broke him to ride at 2 and he just let us set on him and go. But then he got sour. My dad took over toward the end of his 3 year old year and I didn't ride him most of his 4 year old year. This past May, him and the mare he is out of got moved to my place. He has been pastured with her most of his life, with the exception of a year after he was first weaned and I moved him out east with me. The mare does bully him...won't let him in her space, takes over his feed dish, etc. He is 5 now and we had a tough first few rides when he initially moved here but then things were great. He was working well, learning the barrels, going to shows just to expo, etc. That was about 2 months of good work, then a few weeks ago he showed signs of reverting to his old self. Not wanting to lead, not wanting to load, biting, and overall having a bad attitude. I know in the past he got away with things and knew I was scared. But I haven't slipped up on that....until a few days ago. He won't let me catch him, and when I do he won't budge. He resorts to tossing his head and reaching to bite. He tried this with my husband too, who hardly ever handles him and was not even in the picture early on in his years. Thought maybe it was just me the horse has an issue with. But not really. Last night he walked beautifully down the road on a short trail ride but when we got back to our field we ride in he put on the brakes. Stiff as a board, tried to bite when I asked him to canter or complete a circle. Then he reared. That's when I want to give up. I try to act tough and really kick and whip to get him going but it just upsets him. I took him off the barrels a few weeks ago because I thought he was just getting burned out. But it's like he doesn't even want to work. What can I do?
 
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#3 ·
have you checked for soreness, joints and back? saddle fit? teeth? Part of this may well be pain. Check this out thoroughly.

that ruled out, you have an extremely disrespectful horse. He likely has been trying little things from the beginning, which you have let slide. Now he has figured out that if he intimidates you he stops working and goes home. He needs respect. Your best chance is to get a good trainer to get him going right, then either take lessons with the trainer and learn how to work with him properly, or sell.
 
#4 ·
My next call is to the vet. He is due for floating and a general teeth check. I also have been considering getting him scoped for ulcers. Before taking him back to the barn last night I made him work some more. So that way the rearing did not end our ride. I have been considering a trainer but my concern is hom coming back home and trying the same stuff again. But I suppose that is where the lessons with the trainer come in. To help me work with him. Essentially when my dad rode him for a full year he was in training with him...my dad gained the horse's respect and honestly did a great job. But now here I am. I would sell if it was any other horse but it is hard with him being out of our mare, who was a great barrel horse but now unfortunately has to be retired. I do have some trainers I want to call, but is there anything I can do starting from the very beginning basics?
 
#6 ·
but is there anything I can do starting from the very beginning basics?
1) fully admit that the issues(once pain is ruled out) are caused entirely by your handling. thus this is about teaching yourself how to properly handle the horse more than it is about training the horse.

2) get Clinton Anderson's book, and follow all the exercises from beginning to end. They are great at teaching respect and increasing handler confidence.

I have seen this ALOT. its frustrating for you and the horse. You will have to step up and take a firm leadership position in order to succeed with this horse, which is not easy to learn.
 
#8 ·
If you pat and speak soothingly to this horse when he's just misbehaved - don't. He maybe seeing it as a reward for his misbehaviour. Just soldier on. Keep his feet busy whether on the ground or in the saddle. By this I mean keep him bending, as in chase his tail. Make it uncomfortable for him. When he really wants to stop, straighten him out but only when he's facing where you want to go. Don't look down at the ground or between his ears but a hundred yards up the road/trail. This keeps your body in better alignment which helps tell him where you are going. The moment he hesitates, make him chase his tail again going the other way.
 
#9 ·
I would say, be a bit of a jerk....not abusive, but take no crap. If a horse tries to bite me, they get a right cross on the jaw, another horse would kick but my leg don't go that high anymore. If I ask a horse to move and it doesn't, it gets a spank of the lead rope...again, not repeatedly whipping, but a healthy spank. You have to become that dominate mare and make it clear (but fare) you will not tolerate disrespect.

good luck
 
#10 · (Edited)
It sounds to me that there is nothing wrong with this horse that very firm but fair handling will not straighten out.

I agree with sorral3 in how I would treat this animal. If he so much as looked at me with the intent of eating a chunk of me he would certainly think twice about it next time. He would get an open handed slap across the flat of his muzzle that would sting and make a loud noise and this would be followed up with me chasing him backwards until he submitted.

When I wanted to lead him I would have a long whip and if he planted I would have the whip in my left hand, reach around behind me and crack it across his butt.

Every little thing this horse did wrong would be corrected until he was trying to anticipate what I wanted. Then and only then would I ease off.

When I say correction this is not beating him up but it is being very firm and meaning what you day and following through every time.
 
#11 ·
I do not think he is in pain -- He is just a PITA and SPOILED.

The problem is this: In order to straighten him out, his rider is going to have to know what they are doing. I think you have great intentions but you do not know what you do not know.

I think you need to find a trainer or very experienced horse person near you that can put a few serious good rides on him and will then teach you what to do when he does something wrong.

The old saying I have is really true.

The worst thing you let him do is the best behavior you have any right to expect!

Please, get some hands on help before he gets unridable and downright dangerous.
 
#12 ·
I would do exercises with him in hand on the ground. Get him moving his feet where you decide. Make him back up. Teach him to disengage his hindquarters if he doesn't know how, until he'll do it nicely, crossing his hind feet, from a light touch. This last will be useful for you if he goes stiff and resistant on you when you're riding too, or if you suspect he's thinking of rearing. I've used it with my mare who has attitude problems to get me through the hairy moments!

Making him obey you on the lead should make a positive change in his attitude. Most of all I suspect you need to work on your handling skills (confident body language and rapid corrction if he tries anything on) so he stops seeing you as a pushover.
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#13 ·
Amen to what Cherie said!

Horse like this use any inconsistency on your part to their advantage. To my way of thinking, very experienced help would be your best decision. I'd find someone as soon as possible.
 
#14 ·
This sounds like a case of a horse that has been trying to please but has been pushed beyond his limits. The walk down the road on a short trail ride was a break that he responded to nicely. Then, he was reminded of his fears and frustrations as you got back to field you usually work in. Your reaction to his fears increased the tension in the situation. Rather than diffusing the situation, you escalated it.

I see too basic options. You can continue to escalate the tension until one of you submits and the other wins. You, then, have a victor and a looser. Or, you can strive to develop a relationship wherein you are partners with you directing the relationship and your partner willingly participating.

Thankfully, horses are surprisingly forgiving. If you want to keep this horse and develop a good relationship with it, I would suggest beginning all over again as if you had never met. Greet the horse. Introduce yourself. Suggest that he try doing something rather than approaching the situation with the idea of forcing him to do it. If he does it, reward him. If he doesn’t, don’t become upset. Simply ask again in a gentle manner. Continue this until he complies. Then, reward him. If you don’t become upset, the horse has nothing to fight against. You simply demonstrate that you will be more stubborn than the horse. Most horses will eventually say, “Oh, OK.” Then, when they receive the reward, they are motivated to respond more readily the next time they are asked. Calm persistence almost always wins.
 
#15 ·
I am reading something a bit different. Under saddle your horse may actually be balking. If you keep at it you will create a confirmed balker and it is one of the hardest vices to retrain. Most training requires the horse to move.

Balking, rearing and so forth are all evasions and MOST evasions under saddle are from a lack of confidence and confusion in the horse.

This horse also is disrespectful of you on the ground (and that is an entirely different issue).

Quite honestly and not to be mean the entire tenor of your post is one of someone who is in way over their head. If you keep pounding on this alone you are going to get hurt. You need a professional trainer (and some local person who thinks they can train a horse). You need riding lessons and horse handling lessons with a horse that is much more seasoned and reasonable.

If none of this is affordable, selling this horse for an older, seasoned and trained horse would be your best and safest path. Good luck.
 
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