Verifying "credentials"
 
 

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Verifying "credentials"

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  • Educational credentials for being a horse trainer

 
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    05-19-2009, 06:52 PM
  #1
Banned
Verifying "credentials"

If you are new to the world of horses just how would you verify the credentials of your proposed trainer to be (or internet adviser) ?

I see so often people throwing out ads for services and when you look deeper some things just don't jive. New people coming to the horse world just do not have the knowledge to make a decision on what is good or not and are often overwhelmed.

I would like to take this farther because with the internet being at everyone fingertips and so many "pretent" internet trainers out to make themselves appear better than they really are increases the difficulty, as now you can't (for the most part) even see their faces or expressions. A 13 year old can attempt to be 25 with knowledge (or at least googled knowledge). When you compound this with the common assumption that if it isn't on the internet it didn't happen. I have run into this very closed minded type of thinking on every website but believe me there WERE things going one and competitions won by people that will never show up on the net.

I personally see this as a real problem new horse people.
     
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    05-19-2009, 07:08 PM
  #2
Yearling
See their credentials on paper? Ask for references from other students? Watch them teach a lesson/session with someone else? Find a trainer through word of mouth?

If people are willing to just trust anyone these days without doing a little digging, well too bad for them if they don't luck out. I always research anything new I am about to get my self involved in, usually the best way for me, whether I use the internet, phone, books or go in person to see people.
     
    05-19-2009, 07:08 PM
  #3
Trained
Indeed the horse world is full of 'experts', both on and off the internet.

The only people I trust on face value are our breeder/trainer/instructor friends that have been in the horse business 35+ years, our vet that has been a farm animal vet 25+ years, and our old English farrier who has been in that business 50+ years, none of which have ever been near the internet or even advertize.

...and...

I take anything on the internet with a grain of salt. I something gets my curiosity, I take it as the start of doing research on my own. The vet school and state agriculture website are always good references for medical/health topics, but they typically don't deal training type info.
     
    05-21-2009, 08:18 PM
  #4
Banned
This thread brough up another point

Confused!??

BYT ( Back yard Trainers) who have no real idea what they are doing or THINK they know everything then sell the horse to some unsuspecting sole who "thinks" they may have a reasonably trained horse.

People who don't really know what they are buying get lured into purchasing horses with so many holes in their training that it becomes an accident waiting to happen.
     
    05-21-2009, 08:42 PM
  #5
Started
For verification I always tell people to ask for references and call them, and check for any certification/proof of training and education. I have a degree from Centenary College, as well as several big name trainers in the area that I work with and would use as a reference. Anyone can say sure, call so and so, and fake a name and phone number, but if you verify via both email and phone from a public site, then chances are it's the actual person you are talking to. As for paper credentials like a degree, or certification courses, I believe that you can look that up. You can also ask to audit some lessons and see the trainer ride. Any trainer that won't let outsiders see them teach or ride is always a HUGE reg flag to me. I'm always more than happy to share pics/vids of me and my horses and my students to anyone interested, but then again I have nothing to hide.

Spyder you do bring up a good point as so many people can just "fake it" these days and call themselves a trainer - it's definitely a growing issue imo! Especially for people newer to the horse world, and it CAN be a danger.
     
    05-21-2009, 10:37 PM
  #6
Showing
In real life:
To verify whether or not a person is going to be able to help me, sometimes all it will take is talking to them. It is very easy to get a feel for who knows their stuff and who doesn't.
Beyond that I would ask for references, and actually watch them ride and train a horse or teach a student. That way I will know if they will mesh well with my training ideas.


For the internet:
90% of the time it is VERY easy to sift through who is worth listening to. Generally the people who are full of it are easy to spot within a few posts, though sometimes it takes a bit longer.
I always take e-advice with a grain of salt. You can't be sure if the advice is genuine or is Googled.
     
    05-21-2009, 11:49 PM
  #7
Trained
Well said JDI.

In person - I am very picky as to who coaches me, or who I would have take my horse.

Again - there are far too many people out there who feel the right to stick "Coach or Trainer" on their shirt collars. Whether they know it, or are nieve - whichever..there are too many uneducated, turning out uneducated.

I do allot of research before I put myself and my horse into their hands.

- What have you done, how well have you done it, how long have you been doing it?

- Age matters to me immensely. I would far wrather train under someone in their 50's who's been in the field I have interest in since they were in their late teens, than someone who's 25 and been involved in their late teens.

Know what I mean?

- I want to see their students *whether they are horses or people* I want to see how well they are doing, what they are doing and how they are doing it.

- Is this person still very involved in the competative world? Or are they personally taking lessons themselves - whether private or clinics. Are they keeping themselves educated - so that they can better serve me/my horse.

- Their lessons, how well do they teach. Are they patient, explanatory, show me how, why and when. If they are training my horse, I want to be involved. They need to show me how they are working my horse, and show me how to do it so I can follow the process at home. Same with riding - I want to leave each lesson knowing I learnt something new, that I can apply on my own at home.

~~~~

On the internet - just as JDI said.

I am far more interested in recieving advice from people who are experienced and have been there and done that, beyond me.

I wont take advice from someone who's never done it, or who pretends to of done it - these types are easy to point out.
     
    05-22-2009, 12:28 AM
  #8
Started
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyder    
BYT ( Back yard Trainers) who have no real idea what they are doing or THINK they know everything then sell the horse to some unsuspecting sole who "thinks" they may have a reasonably trained horse.

People who don't really know what they are buying get lured into purchasing horses with so many holes in their training that it becomes an accident waiting to happen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustDressageIt    

90% of the time it is VERY easy to sift through who is worth listening to. Generally the people who are full of it are easy to spot within a few posts, though sometimes it takes a bit longer.
I always take e-advice with a grain of salt. You can't be sure if the advice is genuine or is Googled.
IMO, one of the best ways to tell if someone is worth listening to is if they are willing to take advice from others and if they are willing to apologize when they're wrong. Common sense is often far more important than years of experience because those with common sense will listen to those with years of experience.

I'm OK with googled advice. Sometimes that's great, especially if it comes with links. I don't like it when googled advice is presented as if it came from the googler. I do like it when the poster says something like, "The sky is blue because molecules in the air scatter blue light more than they scatter red light," and provides a link. (Why is the sky Blue?)

The thing is...if presented properly googled advice shows that the googler is researching for a thorough answer.
     
    05-22-2009, 12:35 AM
  #9
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyder    
If you are new to the world of horses just how would you verify the credentials of your proposed trainer to be (or internet adviser) ?
No different than any other biz...references are good, but shouldn't be the sole way to check. The best I think is to watch the trainer work...a lot of times, owners get lazy and just don't make the effort then end up getting burned because they didn't know the trainer likes to be abusive and the horse ends up suffering because of it.

Check up on the trainer several times, be there when another client is there getting training/lessons and see how the trainer interacts with that person and that horse.

Get a one time lesson with you and your horse to help you see how the trainer will interact with you and your horse before committing to more time and money.

Ask a lot of questions, find out what kind of tack the trainer uses and why. Find out as much as possible.

I think seeing for yourself is the best way. Because the trainer might be the best in the land for other people, but maybe you end up hating their methods,...so this way, you can see it's not a match. Or maybe you didn't hear good things but ends up that other people expected different and you love the trainer. People are picky or not picky enough. You've got to decide for yourself what will work for you and your horse.

Especially...if the trainer insists that you show up a lot during the training..this is a good sign.

If the trainer says, gimme the horse and go away and don't come back til the horse is done....you're better off with a trainer who's very willing and pushes training you and your horse.

Be a big part of the training. So, if you're sending your horse out, at least make the effort to check up on em once a week or more. Get lessons to find out how the training is going, and to be sure it's what you want.

The more active the owner is in the training process, the quicker that person can pull their horse out of training they don't like and possibly avoid bad things happening if they were to wait a whole month before seeing their horse again.

As for internet training info...that's gotta be taken for what it is...advice from a stranger that can only guess and give out advice based on what you write....take it, think it over, pick through it, and use what you might think you can, and toss the rest. When in doubt, find a trainer in person.

Unless you're taking lessons from the trainer over the internet or something....you don't really have any way of knowing if the person is for real or not. But if you're taking lessons, you can ask for a video or something to see the trainer working. There's really no way of being sure without being in person, I think.

I wouldn't even trust a bare certificate. I know certified trainers who stink. I know trainers who are not certified who are awesome. A piece of paper doesn't make a person a trainer, so it shouldn't be the end-all-be-all of your search. Dig deeper, go watch the trainer for yourself.

Quote:
I see so often people throwing out ads for services and when you look deeper some things just don't jive. New people coming to the horse world just do not have the knowledge to make a decision on what is good or not and are often overwhelmed.
Overwhelmed or not. There's a lot of info and everyone has gut feelings they can follow. I mean, if something feels wrong, it probably is. If it feels right, then check it out more. Dig deeper to see if it's what you want or not. A lot of times, people can be very lazy and just not bother doing the detail work and end up getting a raw deal. Do the homework. No different than if you were looking for daycare for your kid, you wouldn't just hand him over to anyone claiming they're a babysitter, so don't do the same with your horse. Find out everything and stay involved.

Quote:
I would like to take this farther because with the internet being at everyone fingertips and so many "pretent" internet trainers out to make themselves appear better than they really are increases the difficulty, as now you can't (for the most part) even see their faces or expressions. A 13 year old can attempt to be 25 with knowledge (or at least googled knowledge). When you compound this with the common assumption that if it isn't on the internet it didn't happen. I have run into this very closed minded type of thinking on every website but believe me there WERE things going one and competitions won by people that will never show up on the net.
I think this is where people need to stay smart and keep in mind that when it comes down to it...the internet is a place of entertainment.

Reality is....no one here can see you, see your real issues, details and all. So, it's up to everyone to be smart and not just read something and go out and do it blindly. Human beings do have good instincts. I think it's when they choose to ignore them is when trouble happens.

Quote:
I personally see this as a real problem new horse people.
You're absolutely right. But it's reality. There's more people who didn't grow up around horses, who don't have years of experience, who are getting horses that are too much horse for them....but there is also a lot of good help out there for them.

I think, just like anything else, it's just a matter of common sense and educating oneself to find the real trainers and steer away from the rest.

It's not that hard to see what's real and what's not, if you take the time to check. I think that's all it comes down to.

Just like buying horses....I've heard too many times from people who went out and bought a horse without ever riding it! They trusted the seller who claimed the horse was kid broke and bomb proof. The buyers gave the money and took the horse home, only to find out the horse was absolutely unbroke or barely green broke....and these are buyers who've no business with anything other than a seasoned horse. It's disgusting, but it happens. And these too, buyers beware.....check out the horses thoroughly, have the sellers catch, tack, ride the horse before you buy, get a vet check....

The more you dig, the more you know and the better your chances at not getting screwed.
     
    05-22-2009, 01:48 AM
  #10
Weanling
When I want a trainer its to train and show in either the AQHA, NRHA, NCHA, or NRCHA. Its easy to check with those Asso. And find out what a trainer has done in them. Over the years I've had trainers make claims to find out their liars its easy these days to check them out with the internet.
     

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