Very spoiled horse. - Page 3 - The Horse Forum
 23Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #21 of 25 Old 07-11-2012, 04:48 AM
Showing
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 12,985
• Horses: 0
Considering the 2 trainers you spoke to, IMO a 'middle ground' approach is what I'd take.

Like I've said, I do agree this horse needs firmness, but I don't think that means it's *generally* best to use such strong methods as to cause pain. Mild discomfort and persistence until you get the smallest yield at what you want is IME just as effective with less 'side effects' IME.

I do agree with PP basic principles(effectively just negative reinforcement, but so saying, haven't been in the PP scene for at least 15 years, so I suspect there are a lot of changes), but understanding & applying the principles don't add up to the sort of 'recipe' approach & specifics others often use. As mentioned, I think it's not the principles but trying to follow a set of 'instructions' that tend to go wrong, because everyone has their own perspective, including the horses.

I too agree that 'clicker training' is a fantastic method for any sort of training, be that fearful or 'dominant' type horses, be it for 'tricks' or 'real work'. It's actually about my most effective 'tool' for changing motivation & behaviour of 'rude' or 'make my day' type horses. I think, as with most things, it is vital to understand the *principles* behind it though, and the specifics(eg. whether you use a plastic clicker or otherwise, whether food treats or other +R) are optional.

I personally tend to use a combination of both positive and negative reinforcement - both trainer's methods you describe, without going to the extreme of a stud chain to 'pop' him painfully or such(unless it's a safety concern, which means I can't afford the patience to teach the horse), and while I use 'c/t' principles, I don't use a clicker & only part-time use food treats as reinforcement.
loosie is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #22 of 25 Old 07-11-2012, 12:44 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Southeastern PA
Posts: 9,420
• Horses: 1
With just the choice of the two trainers, I would go for the first.
AlexS is offline  
post #23 of 25 Old 07-11-2012, 01:29 PM
Showing
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Ontario
Posts: 17,193
• Horses: 0
The only times one needs to really smack a horse hard is if it either threatens to kick or attempts to go over top of you. The idea of tapping a horse is to not only get his attention but to annoy him in to moving. Sometimes the tapping has to become more forcefull but not to the point of applying the whip hard to get his attention. A common error is to continue tapping the horse when he moves. This makes Jack a dull boy. The tapping needs to stop the moment the horse tries to comply. That is his reward. Wait a few seconds then ask again. I don't bother rubbing the horse with the whip as Parelli does as I've found it makes no difference. The reward is removing the whip, not rubbing the horse with it.
loosie likes this.
Saddlebag is offline  
post #24 of 25 Old 07-11-2012, 08:56 PM
Showing
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 12,985
• Horses: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saddlebag View Post
The reward is removing the whip, not rubbing the horse with it.
If those trainers are the only option I'd definitely go the second. I agree with your post Saddlebag, except that the above quote grates on my pedantic self What you describe is not a reward. It is negative reinforcement. A reward is positive reinforcement.

Positive Reinforcement(+R) = Adding something desireable at the time of a behaviour in order to strengthen it.

Negative Reinforcement(-R) = Removing something undesireable at the time of a behaviour in order to strengthen it.

& then we have positive punishment, which many seem keen on, & negative punishment too...
loosie is offline  
post #25 of 25 Old 07-11-2012, 10:15 PM
Trained
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 8,157
• Horses: 0
I was always told, do as much as necessary and as little as possible.
AlexS likes this.

You just have to see your distance...you don't have to like it.
MyBoyPuck is offline  
Reply

Tags
annoying , brat , horse , spoiled , training

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Horse Forum forums, you must first register.

Already have a Horse Forum account?
Members are allowed only one account per person at the Horse Forum, so if you've made an account here in the past you'll need to continue using that account. Please do not create a new account or you may lose access to the Horse Forum. If you need help recovering your existing account, please Contact Us. We'll be glad to help!

New to the Horse Forum?
Please choose a username you will be satisfied with using for the duration of your membership at the Horse Forum. We do not change members' usernames upon request because that would make it difficult for everyone to keep track of who is who on the forum. For that reason, please do not incorporate your horse's name into your username so that you are not stuck with a username related to a horse you may no longer have some day, or use any other username you may no longer identify with or care for in the future.



User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.


Old Thread Warning
This thread is more than 90 days old. When a thread is this old, it is often better to start a new thread rather than post to it. However, If you feel you have something of value to add to this particular thread, you can do so by checking the box below before submitting your post.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Not Sure Where to Start with Spoiled Horse Daisy25 Horse Training 5 05-06-2012 07:44 PM
Dealing With & Preventing The Spoiled Horse herdbound Horse Articles 17 02-24-2012 02:01 AM
Re-Training a Spoiled Horse LauraLA Horse Training 6 09-29-2010 01:26 AM
You Know Your Horse is Spoiled When....... O So Miniature Horses 2 09-26-2010 12:18 PM
Help, I'm spoiled! IHeartHorses Horse Training 7 04-17-2007 06:41 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome