Which way would you circle? - Page 2 - The Horse Forum

 5Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #11 of 29 Old 08-12-2011, 12:07 PM
Showing
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: MD
Posts: 23,907
• Horses: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by iridehorses View Post
IMO, never get off the horse. I don't tolerate a refusal - next time it can come when it could create a real problem.
I agree. Unless something dangerous is coming (like horse bucks violently or rears than a GOOD ground work would be a way to go) getting off is letting the horse win this round (in horse's mind) IMHO.

"Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass: it's about learning to dance in the rain..."

"When we are no longer able to change a situation - we are challenged to change ourselves."

"How people treat you is their karma; how you react is yours."
kitten_Val is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #12 of 29 Old 08-12-2011, 12:48 PM
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Posts: 16,299
• Horses: 0
There is a reason the horse doesn't want to go right. Most likely, he is so unbalanced he believes he will fall if he tries. I would STILL go right. However, I would go in a much bigger circle where he would have an easier time balancing. And, I would keep the speed much slower. I would use this big easy circle to tackle his lack of proper bend so that he can find his balance. Then, I would slowly tighten the circle still working hard on maintaining the proper bend/balance until he could COMFORTABLY do the circles I want.

To tie the head around does nothing to teach a horse balance, IMO. It is simply using brute force for little purpose. Lunging may help, but many horses lose their ability to bend and balance because of the added weight of the rider.

Make the job easier and give the horse better tools to improve themselves is how I would do it.
Doe likes this.
Allison Finch is offline  
post #13 of 29 Old 08-12-2011, 01:43 PM Thread Starter
Foal
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 64
• Horses: 0
Thanks all! Most of these answers seem to go with the basic response I was getting before. I just want to clarify and say that It really is a hypothetical question and I am not having this problem with a horse. I just wanted to have an intelectual chat about horse training why's and how's.

I understand the issue of needing the horse to respond to the cue for right, however is my theory of going left flawed? I have been told that it is because the horse gets it's way, and is enforcing a negative response.

However part of the going left is also circling hard for an extended time.
Similar to techniques used to get a horse to load in a trailer. --Work the horse outside of the trailer for a long time, make him work and actually think about how he is moving, then ask to go in the trailer, if he does reward by letting him stop working. Because horses want to take "the easy way" out of most things, you are teaching the horse that it is easier to do as he is asked and load in the trailer, instead of working hard on the outside.

Would this same principal not work when correcting a horse by doing circles? ---
When the horse doesn't turn right, you instead go left but ask for a large number of circles doing different exercises (all to the left) to make the horse work. After doing that again ask for the right turn, if he does turn you let him go back to a straight walk as a reward for doing the correct behavior and not having to work so hard again. If he refuses again, you go back to the other direction and work even more. The horse will see this as "Do the behavior cued for, and you work less. Do something else and work more."

Is this thought process incorrect? Or is it simply more common to force a horse go right instead?
Coyote is offline  
post #14 of 29 Old 08-12-2011, 01:51 PM
rob
Weanling
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Raceland, LA
Posts: 631
• Horses: 0
if a child is eating crayons,do you feed him more until he gets sick,or do you take them away from him?answercorrectly,cause it may be brute force.
rob is offline  
post #15 of 29 Old 08-12-2011, 02:01 PM
Showing
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Higgins, TX. YeeHaw!!
Posts: 22,121
• Horses: 24
The problem with working him hard to the left when he refuses right is that it only works if you can show him that right is the place where he gets relief. The only way that would work would be to work his ass off in a left circle and then let him relax in a right circle. However, if he is refusing to turn right, then he won't figure out the connection between refusal and the punishment and you run the risk of making him sour to left circles as well.

Always remember that feeling of looking at a big, open country over the ears of a good horse, seeing a new trail unwind ahead of you, and that ever-spectacular view from the top of the ridge!!! Follow my training blog: http://robertsontraining.blogspot.com/
smrobs is offline  
post #16 of 29 Old 08-12-2011, 02:12 PM Thread Starter
Foal
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 64
• Horses: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by rob View Post
if a child is eating crayons,do you feed him more until he gets sick,or do you take them away from him?answercorrectly,cause it may be brute force.
That's a very interesting comparison, however I don't see the relevance considering we are talking about horses here and not children -- also your example includes possibly causing bodily harm. Making a horse go in circles is very unlikely to hurt it.

You created a logical fallacy called "False analogy".
It adds nothing to the discussion.

But I will address the question you have given me -- In today's society it would be "correct" to take away the crayons. However in an earlier time in our civilization not to long ago, over-indulgence as a punishment was not uncommon. If a child was caught smoking cigarettes or drinking alcohol by a parent, said parent would force the child to smoke or drink until he/she became physically ill. This of course was a good initiative for the child to stop that behavior.

I am not against using force on a horse in order to bring about correct behavior, I am all for "punishment" and do not think the easy way out is always the best option. I simply want to know other peoples thoughts on other techniques of doing things. Wither or not a correction is plausible to use on specific cases, in particular.

(I'm not against spanking children either, however as I said earlier, that adds nothing to the conversation at hand.)

To Smrobs-- Thank you for addressing the "why not" of my idea. I understand your point. Without the connection between the punishment and cause, it really serves no point. I hadn't thought of it like that.
However, for the sake of argument. Do you think it would be possible to use the "circle-left" way correctly--correctly as in getting the horse to understand what you are asking?
I would guess however, that doing it in such a way would be a lengthy correction, and it might be easier or more effective to simply reinforce the turn right. Correct?
Coyote is offline  
post #17 of 29 Old 08-12-2011, 02:25 PM
rob
Weanling
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Raceland, LA
Posts: 631
• Horses: 0
im so sorry if you missed my point
rob is offline  
post #18 of 29 Old 08-12-2011, 02:28 PM Thread Starter
Foal
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 64
• Horses: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by rob View Post
im so sorry if you missed my point
Maybe try saying it in a way that is relevant next time? It might work out better.
Coyote is offline  
post #19 of 29 Old 08-12-2011, 02:36 PM
rob
Weanling
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Raceland, LA
Posts: 631
• Horses: 0
don't give him his way going more lefts. If you can't pull his nose right and send him with left leg squeezed in him, then tie his head around to the right,eventuallyhe will give in to it
rob is offline  
post #20 of 29 Old 08-12-2011, 02:38 PM Thread Starter
Foal
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 64
• Horses: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by rob View Post
dont give him his way going more lefts. If you can't pull his nose right and send him with left leg squeezed in him, then tie his head around to the right,eventuallyhe will give in to it

Thank you, that makes more sense to me.
Coyote is offline  
Reply

Tags
circle , command , correction , cue , turn

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Horse Forum forums, you must first register.

Already have a Horse Forum account?
Members are allowed only one account per person at the Horse Forum, so if you've made an account here in the past you'll need to continue using that account. Please do not create a new account or you may lose access to the Horse Forum. If you need help recovering your existing account, please Contact Us. We'll be glad to help!

New to the Horse Forum?
Please choose a username you will be satisfied with using for the duration of your membership at the Horse Forum. We do not change members' usernames upon request because that would make it difficult for everyone to keep track of who is who on the forum. For that reason, please do not incorporate your horse's name into your username so that you are not stuck with a username related to a horse you may no longer have some day, or use any other username you may no longer identify with or care for in the future.



User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.


Old Thread Warning
This thread is more than 90 days old. When a thread is this old, it is often better to start a new thread rather than post to it. However, If you feel you have something of value to add to this particular thread, you can do so by checking the box below before submitting your post.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
circle in, circle out? alexischristina Jumping 7 06-03-2010 09:13 AM
how much is a circle y worth? QHDragon Horse Tack and Equipment 16 07-13-2009 10:27 PM
circle y bridle nldiaz66 Horse Tack and Equipment 5 06-19-2009 04:46 PM
Circle Y? XxXequinegrlXxX Horse Tack and Equipment 11 06-17-2008 02:24 PM
Circle Y saddle kitten_Val Horse Tack and Equipment 3 09-08-2007 12:41 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome