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Western Pleasure??

This is a discussion on Western Pleasure?? within the Horse Training forums, part of the Training Horses category

     
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        01-07-2009, 07:56 PM
      #21
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Harlee rides horses    
    Yeah. We do A LOT of cantering now just because I want her to have the forward motion and then I slow her down and ask for the same frame and she does it perfectly with draw reins.

    SaddleUp...I'm not USING the draw reins like stated above, they are just there. I'm not dependent on them, it's just like riding with regular split reins but I just have that contact when I need it..

    I think I've decided I'm going to just forget using draw reins for a while and work on starting her lope over..but I don't quite know how to do that because she seems so numb to the o-ring snaffle unless she has draw reins on..
    I am sorry, I misunderstood you. That is good that you are not using them as I thought. Even though you are not using constant contact on them, she still has a dependence on them, knowing that she is not going to be able to put her head up sky high; therefore, she doesn't try when they are on, but does with just the split reins. I agree with getting rid of the draws like you have decided to do. If you do use them occasionally try also using your split reins at the same time. Use both sets of reins, your draw as your "curb" rein, only there if you need it, but your split reins are the ones you use the entire time.

    I also agree with GottaRide and LauraB, good advice there.
         
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        01-07-2009, 10:01 PM
      #22
    Foal
    GottaRide and LauraB have good advice. You ideally want to be able to train your horse without all of the artificial aides, I.e. Draw reins. Don't push her, she is young and you definitely do not want to be trying to fix a horse later on because she did not get a good foundation. Once she learns to give to the bit and becomes balanced, everything else will follow. It becomes natural when the horse is trained properly and using itself correctly.
         
        01-08-2009, 09:46 AM
      #23
    Started
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by LauraB    
    Bending her in circles will eventually give you the chin tuck you want. Circles will teach her to flex each way once at a time. When she is ready and you ask for both sides at once she should tuck her chin and drop her head for you. Make sure you are doing a nice give and release when you are doing your circles. You will find that the circles will help her mouth feel nice and soft.

    Okay thank you so much for your explanation
         
        01-08-2009, 12:17 PM
      #24
    Green Broke
    Oh ehh. I trained Roman with his nose cranked to his chest, yes we depended on draw reins at first because I thought they where a wonderful invention that fixed everything. I tell you this all the time Harleekins that headset first, because without the headset it don't matter how slow your going. Headset is everything, atleast where we show idk about anywhere else. But speed comes with time. Like Roman flys now, he doesn't lope because I took him away fromt he showring for winter, but I will fix it when summer comes around butblahblahblah im getting off subject. I don't think alot of bending will help, I personally HATE bending my horses alot, I do it some because I know its good for them but look at Leon, how his head will be turned to the rail and he can still go in a straight line. Cory has trouble steering him because Mike did too much bending. Im not dissing bending, its all good and fun, its just too much is too much, plus it takes forever. Keep tying her head down, only tie it down tighter, you should see how tight I have Roman, his nose is practially touching his chest, but he evens out after a few laps. Keep doing what your doing.
         
        01-08-2009, 02:41 PM
      #25
    Started
    Dilemma!
         
        01-08-2009, 02:53 PM
      #26
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by GottaRide    
    I still stand by my original advice. The horse still does not know to give to the bit 100% of the time. The difficulty of this increases as you go up in gaits.

    There is no need to be see-sawing, either. You will help the horse more if you learn a more effective way to use your hands. Ride her in a lot of circles, small circles about 15 -20 feet around. Ask for her to bend softly around the circle at whatever gait you are at (the size of the circle increases as you get into the faster gaits). At the same time ask for her chin to come in. The inside hand will be getting her to bend, and the outside hand will control her chin. She can't give her chin if she isn't bending. The bending needs to come first. Lateral flexion is the key to vertical flexion.

    You are missing very important parts in your horse's training. Don't be jumping ahead by using the shank bit right now, and don't think about how she will have to be ridden eventually. She needs to be ridden a certain way right now to instill this training in her. As time goes on she will get much better and more "automatic", and the transition to the shank bit will be very smooth. She's not ready for that yet.
    I agree totally! Lots and Lots of circles! I had the same problem with the mare I used to lease. She was getting better with a lot of work, but then I had to stop leasing her=(
         
        01-08-2009, 04:52 PM
      #27
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by .Delete.    
    Oh ehh. I trained Roman with his nose cranked to his chest, yes we depended on draw reins at first because I thought they where a wonderful invention that fixed everything. I tell you this all the time Harleekins that headset first, because without the headset it don't matter how slow your going. Headset is everything, atleast where we show idk about anywhere else. But speed comes with time. Like Roman flys now, he doesn't lope because I took him away fromt he showring for winter, but I will fix it when summer comes around butblahblahblah im getting off subject. I don't think alot of bending will help, I personally HATE bending my horses alot, I do it some because I know its good for them but look at Leon, how his head will be turned to the rail and he can still go in a straight line. Cory has trouble steering him because Mike did too much bending. Im not dissing bending, its all good and fun, its just too much is too much, plus it takes forever. Keep tying her head down, only tie it down tighter, you should see how tight I have Roman, his nose is practially touching his chest, but he evens out after a few laps. Keep doing what your doing.
    Stop wasting everyone's time.
         
        01-08-2009, 06:08 PM
      #28
    Started
    Easy killer..
         
        01-08-2009, 08:50 PM
      #29
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by .Delete.    
    Oh ehh. I trained Roman with his nose cranked to his chest, yes we depended on draw reins at first because I thought they where a wonderful invention that fixed everything. I tell you this all the time Harleekins that headset first, because without the headset it don't matter how slow your going. Headset is everything, atleast where we show idk about anywhere else. But speed comes with time. Like Roman flys now, he doesn't lope because I took him away fromt he showring for winter, but I will fix it when summer comes around butblahblahblah im getting off subject. I don't think alot of bending will help, I personally HATE bending my horses alot, I do it some because I know its good for them but look at Leon, how his head will be turned to the rail and he can still go in a straight line. Cory has trouble steering him because Mike did too much bending. Im not dissing bending, its all good and fun, its just too much is too much, plus it takes forever. Keep tying her head down, only tie it down tighter, you should see how tight I have Roman, his nose is practially touching his chest, but he evens out after a few laps. Keep doing what your doing.

    Where to even start...There are so many things wrong in this paragraph. I am awful at trying to type out what I know, but will try to give it a shot. The reason the horse you mention can be turned to the rail but still go in a straight line is that he was not flexed correctly. They have to be taught the the body follows the head and neck. Sure, I have a horse that does that sometimes, he is only 4 and has not learned how to keep his body together yet, he will learn in time, but has also not learned how to flex throughout his whole frame. If the horse is not schooled in leg yields and flexing on a circle then he may do this.

    Tying the head down like you are suggesting is only going to create a resentful horse, one that may take one of many different ways of expressing it's displeasure. Some may take to bucking, some may suffer in silence, but become hard mouthed.

    Headset is not first and is not the most important thing. Headset comes with time and correct training. It is not front to back, but really back to front. THey must be working correctly from behind in order to truly frame up, anything else is a false frame, with the horse on the forehand. Perhaps at local shows you are not counted off for working on the forehand, but anything more than schooling shows I can guarantee you will be (or should be).

    LauraB, LoveMyFinny, and GottaRide please help me on this one! I am afraid I am not explaining well enough.
         
        01-08-2009, 09:48 PM
      #30
    Weanling
    "Back to Front" is the perfect phrase SaddleUp158. Headset is one of the final steps to making a pleasure horse and you will discover that when everything else is right the horse's headset will come naturally. It is very hard to tell someone in words what to do, it would be better if someone could show you what to do Harlee. It is something that needs to be experienced. If you could scrape up the funds for a trainer I know the perfect one to teach you this. He is in Ohio, he has done all of the professional training on my horse. I started training with him 8 years ago. He is HONEST, an excellent teacher, and has trained some world class horses. He is good enough that I ignore the trainers in my area and haul my horse 5 1/2 hours to him. PM me if you want his name and number. PS, I have never once seen him use drawreins!
         

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