What Bit? -Info Added - The Horse Forum
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post #1 of 19 Old 12-25-2010, 08:54 PM Thread Starter
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What Bit? -Info Added

Sorry those who posted on my other. I forgot the other one :( How embarrassing. Anyway....
She's a 17.2/3 hand Holsteiner mare, VERY forward, and it's controlled but she naturally moves in a large extension so I need something that will still let her forward comfortabley but allow for me to stop her without using every ounce of strength. (not lack of training, rather she'll just slow the pace etc, but to canter-halt trans I would really have to reef on her and really don't want to).
In the boucher she was unhappy and would run through it and constantly toss her head around. I changed to a 3 ring dutch pepperment flavor which was just the other one that I had around. I'm 90% that it's not dressage legal, and would ideally like one to train in that I can show in, like a constant. She REALLy liked it. Well, it was just a huge improvement from the boucher.

My trainer mentioned maybe a double bridle or pelhem, or weymouth but she's just observing from the ground. She couldn't ride her and get a feel.

What do you think/suggest??
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post #2 of 19 Old 12-25-2010, 10:49 PM
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If she is pulling so hard, That it takes this amount of strength to stop her ["but allow for me to stop her without using every ounce of strength"], then you really have more training than equipment problem.

I would first suggest schooling with lots of half halts and stops followed by 8 or 10 steps back.

I also like to do what I call one rein schooling. I stop a horse by using one rein only or switch from one rein to the other using inside leg each time until the hose just gives up charging forward. They just cannot push effectively against one rein.

The reason this works is that it takes two [horse and rider] for a horse to pull. He cannot pull, [or more accurately 'push'], if you do not lock on and pull. It is not the mouth that gets hard and insensitive -- It is the brain that just tunes out the pulling done by the rider.

If they still want to keep charging forward, then I teach them to come to a complete stop and to stand completely still with one rein. This is commonly referred to a 'taking a horse's head away form him' or a 'one rein stop'. If this maneuver is taught to a horse, you can take him from canter, gallop, strong trot or ??? to stop without allowing or supporting his pulling in any way. I have not seen one, even run-away OTTBs, that did not learn to back off and listen to light hands on a mild bit if this technique is used. It is VERY effective with even the toughest horses.

If you want to learn haw to effective take a horse's head away from him, I'll explain in detail how this is done.
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post #3 of 19 Old 12-26-2010, 12:58 PM Thread Starter
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Well, it's not training because she will stop, but she just will vary the pace instead and slow down to the point that she's piaffing more than stopping.
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post #4 of 19 Old 12-26-2010, 01:01 PM
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I use a dutch gag and it is very good. You can either put the reins on the first, second or third ring depending on how strong she is.
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post #5 of 19 Old 12-26-2010, 01:12 PM
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AK1 - to start with a dutch gag is not dressage legal, nor is a pelham, a weymouth should never be used without the bradoon.

A double bridle should never be used for brakes, it is for extra refinement and to give a better feel down the reins

what mouth pieces have you used? there is more to bitting then just the sided of the bit.

Sorry but from everything I have read it is deffinatly a training problem. If the mare is not doing what you want then you have a training issue, when you give the signal for halt, if she does not halt (ie she slows down to a piaffe) then she is not understanding or is not taking notice of your signals. Both cases are a training issue, the first because she has never been taught what those signals mean and the second because she obviously lacks respect for the aids given.

Example - Stan was very well schooled, it didnt matter what tack i had on him, I took up a contact then he came round, If I said halt he did, If I put my leg back we got canter, if I pushed him over we went sideways, half halts got his back end under him. I regularly rode him in both a french link snaffle (egbut) a pelham or a double depending on what I was doing (snaffle or double for dressage, pelham for showing), however I knew full well that I could ride him in a head collar and lead rope and he would still react exactly the same becaus ehe respected me and had had it drilled into his brain that me sitting up and tensing my tummy muscles (essentialy blocking forward movement through my spine) ment that he had to stop or slow down dependng on the degree of tensing I did and when I released the forward movements!

I'm worried that a trainer is advocating bitting up a horse rather then seeing the obvious issue with training.

RIDE your horse FORWARDS and keep him STRAIGHT

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post #6 of 19 Old 12-26-2010, 01:14 PM
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Oh sorry just seen you use a dutch gag XD
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post #7 of 19 Old 12-26-2010, 01:56 PM
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AK1- It does sounds like you do need to work on a clear downward transition. But that already being said.

What does this peppermint bit look like? I'm thinking it resembles a 3 piece snaffle like a french link or lozengen bit. I've had a lot of good success with this bit in the past. Plus you can get it in a copper mouth (must be full copper to be legal, not just the middle section), which a lot of horses like.

I wouldn't work in the Pelham or a double bridle. It will give you a false sense of a frame and control. Plus they just don't communicate the same as a snaffle. Once you reach 3rd level (someone who rides higher please correct me if I'm wrong) you can start using a double, but till then, no point in riding in it if you can't use it in competition.
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post #8 of 19 Old 12-26-2010, 02:17 PM
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Maybe it's not the horse but you that is the issue? Have you thought that maybe your cue to stop is not clear to her?

Unfortunately I cannot give you much of suggestion as I am not properly educated. What I do know is that if all you're using is reins for the stop then your horse is doing exactly what you're asking. (I think.)

"The wise man thinks he knows nothing.
The fool thinks he knows everything."

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post #9 of 19 Old 12-26-2010, 02:44 PM
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I agree Tymer - it sounds like Rider issue more than Horse issue. Our horses reflect 100% of what we are doing in the saddle.

As Reiner Klimke says "It is not our horses job to speak our language, but it is our job to learn to speak our horses. It is up to us, as the Trainer/Rider to be as clear and precise with our questions, to ensure our horses are able to clearly understand what it is that we are asking of them, so that they can answer us correctly"

If you give a horse sometihng ot lean into, they're going to take it - sounds to me Ak1, that you are riding all hands, front to back, instead of seat into legs into hands - back to front.

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post #10 of 19 Old 12-26-2010, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Ak1 View Post

My trainer mentioned maybe a double bridle or pelhem, or weymouth but she's just observing from the ground. She couldn't ride her and get a feel.

What do you think/suggest??

Change trainers !

All I can say is position position position and that refers to you AND the horse.

It is YOUR job to BE in position to ensure the command is fulfilled so look to yourself and see if YOU gave up the aid after you asked her.

Second IF the above is fulfilled then POSITION her to do what you ask. I will bet dollars to donuts that after asking for the transitions you just kept going straight ahead.
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